John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

What do you think of Kim and his 'store walks' of John Lewis in suspenders and short skirts, all attempting to garner responses from women and children in the shop? I posted a link upthread.

No, but every transwoman is male.

It feels like a big commitment for a man to pretend to be a woman to get a chance at a peek of a woman in John Lewis when regular men dressed as men are out raping women in broad daylight….still can’t understand why people get their knickers so twisted over this.

it’s impossible to police anyway.

Safety and dignity should be available to everyone. It's up to John Lewis to make sure that all their staff and customers are safe and treated appropriately. Not every trans person is an autogynaephile.

Your absolutely right.
I suspect they are wanting to be their for a far more mundane reason.

It feels like a big commitment for a man to pretend to be a woman to get a chance at a peek of a woman in John Lewis when regular men dressed as men are out raping women in broad daylight….still can’t understand why people get their knickers so twisted over this.

it’s impossible to police anyway.

I see the point you're making, but not all trans women have surgery - hormones increase breast tissue at varying rates, so it is actually reasonable that a trans woman would need a bra fitting. In my own circle of friends none of the trans women have had breast surgery.

i do agree that everyone needs to feel safe in this environment though, i know my friends would be mortified if someone felt uncomfortable fitting them. Not sure how we do this, but surely there must be a middle ground?

It's not to get a chance to peek at a woman.

It feels like a big commitment for a man to pretend to be a woman to get a chance at a peek of a woman in John Lewis when regular men dressed as men are out raping women in broad daylight….still can’t understand why people get their knickers so twisted over this.

it’s impossible to police anyway.

Shops have loads of rules. You can't return sale items for cash, you can't try on underwear or swimsuits unless you're wearing pants, you can't have more than one person in a cubicle.

They could easily say cubicles are designated on the basis of biological sex. They can even quote the relevant bit of the equality act.

And have men staff the male cubicles and women staff the female ones.

Altho, God knows, I don't want sales men to have to go through an uncomfortable experience either, I suspect it would suddenly become far less of a problem.

Come on. That's a massive pivot.

The issue is that males are being allowed into the bra fitting area which is for women. JL is forcing its female staff to fit men with bras, and its female customers to be in the same fitting area as men while they have bras fitted. JL is making it women's problem.

And they are choosing to do that instead of a) not offering the service to men, b) offering the service elsewhere and by male fitters.

Oh Lord, we totally crossposted.

I remember at the time it was difficult to believe that the guardian was fully behind this blatant misogyny

Haha so spooky that we had the same thought simultaneously

It's worth reading this short Guardian confessional article for some insight. My bold.

I bought my first pair of knickers in January. Within a month, I was wearing knickers and tights under my clothes almost all the time. My partner of 20 years has embraced this wholeheartedly. Sometimes we go shopping together. I let the sales ladies know I am shopping for myself. As I pay, I smile and wink, as if to say, “I am enjoying this even if you aren’t.”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/03/my-life-in-sex

mansplainingsincethe90s
Where else would they get their bras fitted?

Not a problem for women to solve

That's my point. It's for JL to solve. Trans women may need to have a bra fitted. It's up to JL how they do that, while maintaining safety and dignity for all. ( not just the TW or the staff member or the women customers.'
And (using someone else's figures from above) just because only 0.5% of their customers are TW doesn't mean that they shouldn't be served or offered the same services as anyone else.

I’ve had that conversation and she says they won’t have to serve them. But the posters on here are claiming that’s not true and say they have a ‘real world’ example. Shame they can’t provide me with the evidence as I love a good gottcha for someone so entrenched in a culture war that they can’t use any critical thinking.

It's worth reading this short Guardian confessional article for some insight. My bold.

I bought my first pair of knickers in January. Within a month, I was wearing knickers and tights under my clothes almost all the time. My partner of 20 years has embraced this wholeheartedly. Sometimes we go shopping together. I let the sales ladies know I am shopping for myself. As I pay, I smile and wink, as if to say, “I am enjoying this even if you aren’t.”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/03/my-life-in-sex

The articles, not the man 😄