John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

I've always said that third spaces and categories are the solution for those that don't feel comfortable with the provisions for their own sex.

We shouldn't need to police such provisions. Decent people tend to be self policing. But if someone should transgress the rules then staff/employers/authorities can be alerted.

No - GNC people are frequently accused of being transgender.

People can tell if one is male or female without looking at their genitalia.

That's not an excuse to not do anything at all.

No it wouldn’t. He would just do it somewhere else.

It's not because they're criminals,it's because they're men.

This. I don't want to share female space with any men at all. Not my own family members, DP, male friends or anyone else's Nigel. Regardless of their claimed identity.

We don't need to do that becase social rules and practices tend to mean that such spaces are respected. Decent men/ men who have empathy with women know not to transgress.

They're excluded on the basis that they are male.

You don’t lock your doors because the majority of people won’t statistically burgle you, you do it based on the tiny tiny minority who might.

If anyone should be putting in the same energies into male violence as they do about getting males into women’s spaces it’s people like you and those who argue for this.

Get those stats of male violence against women down - no matter what special feelings they have - and women might not mind the special ones who want additional privileges being in their spaces.

We charge them with a crime and sentence accordingly. If we don't, they will escalate. See Wayne Couzens as a good example of this.

I don’t think banning him from a bra fitting room is going to make a squirrel fart of a difference

It would stop him being able to involve at least some non consenting women in his role play though, wouldn't it? What other "difference" would it need to make?

Thank you for the italics. It really helps to highlight the specific parts you wish to really be condescending.

how do you suggest policing the access to suggested single sex spaces

Do you suggest instead having everyone who wants to access a changing room first revealing their genitalia to the door staff to secure entry?

We have single sex spaces. They are predicated on sex.

No male people may ordinarily enter into female only spaces. They are for female people.

You surely understand why women and girls have such spaces in the first instance? Or maybe you are new to this forum? There are many multiples of threads which discuss and explain precisely why we have single sex exemptions and protections, if you are uncertain.

It's not because they're criminals,it's because they're men.

So let's make absolutely everything, every space, mixed sex. Riiight.

Tell me you have no idea about the concept of safeguarding without saying you have no idea about safeguarding.

You must know that the murderer of Sarah Everard began with self exposure - his fetishistic impulses then escalated.

im sure that would also apply to someone who was, male or otherwise, accessing a changing room and exorcising a sexual fetish.

banning a group of people based on the perception that a minority of them are criminals is absurd.

assuming all trans people are secret fetishists is a lazy - and frankly, baffling stereotype.

I wish there was this much interest from mumsnet in relation to men who identify as men’s violence towards women.

So if its unfair/unworkable to ban men from some places we can't ban them from any?
Pretty sure parks aren't women only spaces

We tend to arrest them, when/if apprehended, for indecent exposure. Such men can be put on the sex offenders register it becomes habitual.

Have you ever experienced being on the receiving end of such behaviour yourself?

You don't seem to be grasping the key point about such behaviours......they are about boundary pushing and the illicit thrills that come from shocking others.

So what do we do about men masturbating in parks? Ban all men from parks?

To whom?

That is not how fetishistic impulse works......it is not about the women at all...women and girls are just props that are used to achieve the desired attention/validation or an erotic, boundary pushing thrill.

Difference to who? To what?

Have you read the hundreds of posts from women on here, many with teenage daughters, to whom it makes a massive difference?

Or can't you hear them.

No that’s not an example of an employee being forced to serve a male as explained by the PP who has the real world example.

Your post is an example of a women being able to exercise her right not to be served by a man.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Indeed! I means there’s no esoteric mystique to bra measuring that means only women can do it. No reason at all why male staff can’t be trained to do it on men

Reads like a carry on script