John Lewis 'allows trans women into bra-fitting rooms' as retailer hit by furious gender row

Well they don't. Lots of women don't even wear bras.

But it's hardly the point.

Men don't need to go into women's changing rooms, bras or no bras.

Men have all sorts of ways of predating on women and upsetting them for enjoyment you know.

Do you take this approach to paedophiles - they’ll abuse children anyway so why bother to try to control it?

thats Not the point though is it?
the point is - you can’t deny people access to spaces, based on individual opinions of what people should and do look like.

therefore, expending such huge amounts of energy on petty shit like changing rooms and signs on toilets has absolutely no impact on anything of importance in the real world.

perhaps if you spent less time online petitioning your right to ring fence your middle of the lane, middle class spaces, like John Lewis (ffs let’s all get a grip), and actually focused on pouring some energy into real issues like domestic violence offending, sentencing for rapists and fiscal policies that marginalise marginalised women then we might have some actual traction on women’s safety.

however middle class mumsnet who don’t actually want to challenge the status quo so focus all their pent up bile on a minuscule section of society who for the vast vast vast majority don’t bother anybody at all (other then their obscenity of existing as per these vile threads) and make up their own language to give themselves some kind of special status as advocates for women.

yuck.

I'm speaking from a position of naivety. I assumed all women got their bras properly fitted so that they get a decent fit. That's what my wife does. So if a trans woman has boobs and would like a properly fitted bra, it makes sense to me that they would go to the same place that my wife goes to.

You can't tell!

Well, we're just telling men they need to stay out

Well they won't!

Ta da!!!

😄

It's such a floppy one, too. One minute we're being accused of wanting genital inspections, the next minute we're being told that nothing else will do because we can't tell without them.

I think they just like typing the word genitals.

They certainly appear to.

Claiming men are secretly violating women's spaces isn't generally seen as a positive !

Exactly, and not by women not wanting males in females spaces.

So because a female that you know, who looks so much like a male (what, even after speaking?) that they get mistaken for a male on the regular, this should be a reason to let males into women’s spaces?

Please make it make sense.

Or expected to prove her feminity with an inspection before being allowed in?

Literally no one is requesting "genital inspections" but it's amazing how much this straw man comes up.

Not her femininity, no.

And Women are not trying to exclude teenage girls from fitting services.

What exactly about this girl is so masculine looking? I find it hard to believe she’s assumed to be a boy by everyone she meets?

Quite @Datun - do they think it's a persuasive argument?

CultOfRamen

it really does transactactivism absolutely no favours when people claim that men will violate women spaces by stealth. And we can't do anything about it.

And what about my friends teenage daughter who gets mistaken for a boy everywhere she goes? Should she too be denied entry? Or expected to prove her feminity with an inspection before being allowed in?

We can tell, however they present 🤷🏻‍♀️

They don't. They just look like their sex, in the vast majority of cases, and as pp have said, they sound like it too.

Again, if he's in a bra fitting room demanding that a woman talk to him about breasts and find him a bra, it's not going to be a secret!

And in the instance of the chap up thread very helpfully posting a video of what he was doing, he'll be the one with the phone in his hand taking close up pictures of his knees and thighs as he walks around the shop.

And if you think every trans person looks like Dave from the building site with suspenders and lippy smeared across his moustache then you kidding yourself.

I’m sure there are GNC whom this has happened to on initial sight, but would soon by dispelled once they opened their mouth.

You missed the memo that everyone is supposed to pretend they don't know what sex anyone is without a chromosome check.

Lol, if you can't tell men from women without looking at their genitals, you have a much bigger problem thank you think

Define “frequently”. I’ve never seen it happen, even once.

The entire problem is that the previous unspoken rules about men not barging into women's spaces are now able to be discarded and the response by TRAs is to gloat that they were unspoken and unenforceable.

How have humans managed to tell the difference since the beginning of time who is male and female without getting their bits out?

I’m sure there are GNC whom this has happened to on initial sight, but would soon by dispelled once they opened their mouth.