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Original poster

Starmer refuses to promise that domestic abusers will not be released early under emergency measures to combat prison overcrowding

120 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/09/2024 00:35

After being asked about the release schemes, the Prime Minister said ministers are "doing everything" to ensure domestic abusers are not released early but stopped short of confirming that they will not.

Speaking to broadcasters in Dublin, Sir Keir was discussing reports that there was a loophole in the early release scheme which could see domestic abusers released early.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/starmer-prisons-alex-chalk-domestic-abuse-early-release-overcrowding/

'I am forced into this': Starmer refuses to say domestic abusers will not be released early from prison

Sir Keir Starmer has refused to promise that domestic abusers will not be released early from prison under emergency measures to combat overcrowding.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/starmer-prisons-alex-chalk-domestic-abuse-early-release-overcrowding

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Original poster
IwantToRetire · 12/09/2024 18:26

Thats one interpretation as to why the riots stopped, its not mine, people stopped attending when they saw the first 2 or 3 sentences of 18months to 3 years and thought "oh fuck....."

The time line of when the first cases were heard and riots fading away dont support this statement.

And the role of local communities for once amplified by MSM made these men think its not really going our way is it.

But all this is whatabouterry.

The issue is the new Labour Government told the courts to priorities the cases of those arrested, ie making any already log jammed court system worse ie people thinking they had a court case were delayed.

And because they knew more places in prison would be needed because the directive was to ensure the highest sentencing ADDITIONAL early release had to be put in place.

All of this is in the public domain.

Questions were asked.

Funnily enough not everyone thinks as this Labour Government thinks who seem to have the posture politics of first year students, and so yes people who know how the situation should work, objected.

And its not as though Starmer despite his legal background thinks his personal politics should be the yardstick ie when he said starvation was a legitimate tool in war. Only to be corrected. He's a complete muppet.

OP posts:
PorcelinaV · 12/09/2024 08:55

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StainlessSteelMouse · 11/09/2024 21:18

TBH, I don't expect Labour to fix the prison capacity issue overnight. I can't remember a time when prison capacity wasn't a problem that the government of the day was struggling to deal with.

I just want them to level with us and come up with some workable proposals. I'm open to hearing those.

But I thought the downfall of Corbyn might have meant an end to the times when you couldn't be critical of Dear Leader. The chorus of "you're all obviously Tories if not far right," often aimed at literal socialists, is just as annoying as back in the day when Corbyn fans were asking if I was on the Israeli embassy's payroll.

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 21:15

RuggedHairyTortoise · 11/09/2024 20:24

No, but my point is that you cannot say unilaterally no rapist is being released under this scheme. You simply, do not know that. Unless you know for certain what each and every persons crime is you cannot say with certainty who is, or is not being released under this scheme.

Edited

I agree with that, nothing in life certain, there is always human error, but i would hope and maybe i'm being stupid here, that the prison authorities are only putting people fwd for release who don't pose a significant risk.

Obviously anyone in prison is likely to be capable of violence, just being in these places is going to do that.

My contention here, is that this is not a situation of Labours making, unlike the WFA fiasco.

ArabellaScott · 11/09/2024 20:33

RuggedHairyTortoise · 11/09/2024 20:24

No, but my point is that you cannot say unilaterally no rapist is being released under this scheme. You simply, do not know that. Unless you know for certain what each and every persons crime is you cannot say with certainty who is, or is not being released under this scheme.

Edited

We know for certain domestic abusers have been released.

https://policeprofessional.com/news/prisoner-early-release-scheme-could-put-safety-of-women-and-children-at-risk-warns-womens-aid/

Police Professional | Prisoner Early Release Scheme could put safety of women and children at risk, warns Women’s Aid

https://policeprofessional.com/news/prisoner-early-release-scheme-could-put-safety-of-women-and-children-at-risk-warns-womens-aid

RuggedHairyTortoise · 11/09/2024 20:24

No, but my point is that you cannot say unilaterally no rapist is being released under this scheme. You simply, do not know that. Unless you know for certain what each and every persons crime is you cannot say with certainty who is, or is not being released under this scheme.

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 20:19

RuggedHairyTortoise · 11/09/2024 20:07

'No rapist is being released stop scaremongering'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13838641/Inmate-arrested-suspicion-rape-sex-assault-SECONDS-released-Keir-Starmers-early-prison-release-scheme.html

Now tbf I don't know what he was originally in for, but I don't see how you can say 'no rapist' is being released when this whole thing has been done so fast and with such little preparation, and no-one actually knows who has been released and what each of them were in for. Unless there is going to be a detailed list of names, ages and crimes (which obviously will never happen due to GDPR) then none of know what these people were in for. And bland assurances from KS mean fuck all in my book.

Show quote history

Well someone released for say, shoplifting, can then go home and murder their partner.
As can someone who has been released after serving their allotted time.

Do you think rapists stay in jail forever?

Eventually they ALL get released and many go onto to commit further rapes.

Like i keep saying, this release scheme is not of Labours doing, prison officers etc deserve safe working conditions, 4 to a cell, violence and drug abuse if rife, mostly down to overcrowding.

there is simply no room to imprison the next man convicted of rape.

RuggedHairyTortoise · 11/09/2024 20:07

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 09:26

Those aren't realistic or quick fixes.

Staff are being attacked because of over crowding, staff are also leaving, average length of a new starter staying in the PS is around 12months.

No rapist is being released, stop scare mongering, you know very well thats not what is happening.

The only solution is Early Release unless Estonia can take them & to re access why the UK jails the highest number of people, proportionately, than almost any other country in the EU - are we inherently bad people???

People not paying fines should never be jailed, whats the point? long community sentences would be better, same with someone who does 140 down the M5 at 2am.

Well had the riots not happened, then thats 200 less Hindley and Bradleys being released as doubtless you'd portray it.

Edited

'No rapist is being released stop scaremongering'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13838641/Inmate-arrested-suspicion-rape-sex-assault-SECONDS-released-Keir-Starmers-early-prison-release-scheme.html

Now tbf I don't know what he was originally in for, but I don't see how you can say 'no rapist' is being released when this whole thing has been done so fast and with such little preparation, and no-one actually knows who has been released and what each of them were in for. Unless there is going to be a detailed list of names, ages and crimes (which obviously will never happen due to GDPR) then none of know what these people were in for. And bland assurances from KS mean fuck all in my book.

Inmate is arrested on suspicion of rape moments after being released

The extraordinary scene played out yesterday morning during a mass freeing of inmates at Wandsworth Prison in south-west London .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13838641/Inmate-arrested-suspicion-rape-sex-assault-SECONDS-released-Keir-Starmers-early-prison-release-scheme.html

Clavinova · 11/09/2024 20:06

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:03

100s of prisoners are released every single day in normal circumstances, most re offend.

this current scheme is exactly the same one as Sunak announced pre GE.

Whatever else you can throw at Labour, the state of prisons is down to the Tories, just as it was labours fault in 2007.

Especially given the Tories knew all about the prison estate in 2010, they had 14 years to put it right

Show quote history

I was pointing out that Labour's 'temporary scheme' lasted three years when they were in government last time.

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:47

IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 19:27

I don't think they deserve criticism for this.

As already said on this thread this about the Labour Party abusing their position as the Government to indulge in posture politics.

Because they wanted to be seen to be cracking down on rioters / right wingers they hijacked the justice system to achieve this.

So because of this they have delayed existing cases and put pressure on the prison system.

And now the crack down didn't stop the rioting. The rioting stopped because first of all hundreds did not flock to join the rioters, and were also shamed by communities showing exactly to opposite by standing against their behaviour.

And the media showing that they had all responded to misinformation.

Many of the arrests happened days after the events had ended based on CCTV etc..

And again all of this has been said in this thread.

You could have dealt with the points made about how underhand and undemocratic what the Labour Party has done based on what actually happened.

Had the Tories done the same they too would have been criticised for playing politics with the judicial system, and with as usual so little consideration for women.

Again, have you read the thread and if so why not respond to the points and comments made.

Just saying its not fair to criticise them is just your feeling.

Thats one interpretation as to why the riots stopped, its not mine, people stopped attending when they saw the first 2 or 3 sentences of 18months to 3 years and thought "oh fuck....."

We have a separation of powers between Govt and the justice system, so hijacked isn't correct.

Anyway, even without the riots, we'd still be seeing approx 1400 prisoners released.

The bottom line is we as a country have not invested in Prisons, or amended our sentencing guidelines, thats the root cause, you can argue over the scraps but the blame is on Governments, who don't forget, we voted in, over the last 20 or 30 years.

We will also see further releases too.

hamstersarse · 11/09/2024 19:38

I thought kier starmer was going to be steady Eddie, safe pair of hands. That’s what all the lefties told me anyway.

I’m finding him quite sinister. He’s dead behind the eyes, monotone, exhibits no emotions…I think there’s a name for that 😳

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 19:27

I don't think they deserve criticism for this.

As already said on this thread this about the Labour Party abusing their position as the Government to indulge in posture politics.

Because they wanted to be seen to be cracking down on rioters / right wingers they hijacked the justice system to achieve this.

So because of this they have delayed existing cases and put pressure on the prison system.

And now the crack down didn't stop the rioting. The rioting stopped because first of all hundreds did not flock to join the rioters, and were also shamed by communities showing exactly to opposite by standing against their behaviour.

And the media showing that they had all responded to misinformation.

Many of the arrests happened days after the events had ended based on CCTV etc..

And again all of this has been said in this thread.

You could have dealt with the points made about how underhand and undemocratic what the Labour Party has done based on what actually happened.

Had the Tories done the same they too would have been criticised for playing politics with the judicial system, and with as usual so little consideration for women.

Again, have you read the thread and if so why not respond to the points and comments made.

Just saying its not fair to criticise them is just your feeling.

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iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:18

Neither party considered impacts on women or children, least of all the authors of austerity.
We are where we are because over the last 2 or 3 decades we have not built enough prisons for the sentencing we have told the courts to hand out.

The rioters started in the north, then they moved further south, if the courts/government hadn't cracked down on this with severe sentences, god knows how it would have ended.

I don't think they deserve criticism for this.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 19:10

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:03

100s of prisoners are released every single day in normal circumstances, most re offend.

this current scheme is exactly the same one as Sunak announced pre GE.

Whatever else you can throw at Labour, the state of prisons is down to the Tories, just as it was labours fault in 2007.

Especially given the Tories knew all about the prison estate in 2010, they had 14 years to put it right

Show quote history

As said up thread, the existing early release of prisoners brought in by the Tories, has had to be increased because of the Labour Party decison to express through legal cases against rioters.

As I think most of the post on the thread show this is what the thread is about, and how as usual politcal posturing never takes into account the impact on women.

So what is happening now is about how Labour has made an existing bad situation worse.

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iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:04

EasternStandard · 11/09/2024 18:47

I hope they feel bad

Listening to the jeering, deflection and playground responses in PMQs today I'm guessing they don't.

Show quote history

Who can tell? they all sound like a bunch of delinquants

iwishihadknownmore · 11/09/2024 19:03

Clavinova · 11/09/2024 16:04

The temporary scheme

Labour had a similar policy that lasted from 2007 - 2010;

Feb 2010
Labour was last night accused of a cynical election ploy after scrapping its controversial early release scheme for prisoners only weeks before polling day.

Jack Straw announced the ending of the scheme, which has resulted in nearly 80,000 offenders walking free 18 days before their sentence reaches its halfway point.

Known officially as End of Custody Licence, the scheme has been contentious since its introduction in 2007.

Prisoners set free early have allegedly carried out 1,512 offences including three murders, and rapes and assaults.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252953/Labours-early-prisoner-release-scheme-scrapped.html

100s of prisoners are released every single day in normal circumstances, most re offend.

this current scheme is exactly the same one as Sunak announced pre GE.

Whatever else you can throw at Labour, the state of prisons is down to the Tories, just as it was labours fault in 2007.

Especially given the Tories knew all about the prison estate in 2010, they had 14 years to put it right

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 19:01

"Losing the whip is seen by many as one of the strongest punishments a political party can dole out to its MPs. The move essentially expels the member from their party, meaning that while they can remain on the green benches, they have to sit as an independent MP."

Interesting possibility if more Labour MPs get a backbone, and all "lose the Whip", then they can join the Independent Alliance and in no time the Independent Alliance migh become the majority party!

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EasternStandard · 11/09/2024 18:47

IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 17:53

For anyone interested there is a list of Labour MPs who did vote to cut winter fuel allowance for pensioners
https://archive.is/TH8mY

I hope they feel bad

Listening to the jeering, deflection and playground responses in PMQs today I'm guessing they don't.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 17:53

For anyone interested there is a list of Labour MPs who did vote to cut winter fuel allowance for pensioners
https://archive.is/TH8mY

OP posts:
Original poster
IwantToRetire · 11/09/2024 17:46

I like Rosie Duffied but she should have voted against the motion.

Ideally I would have liked all Labour MP who abstained to have actually voted against.

But respect that I am not in her shoes.

Quite honestly I not quite sure of the implications of having the whip removed, but as Labour HQ have made clear this would be the consequence, that she didn't because it could stop her being a useful constituency MP.

And compared to all those Labour MPs who did votes for this, and are collecting (which I didn't know they good) their own fuel allowances, I think they are ones to be criticised.

Not someone the Labour Party has been trying to get rid off because of her lone bravery of not being silenced on women's sex based rigths.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/rachel-reeves-claim-thousands-energy-support-winter-fuel/ also at https://archive.is/61Dhh

Reeves claimed £4,400 in energy support before axing winter fuel payments

Chancellor and Labour MPs used over £400,000 of taxpayer cash to heat their homes

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/rachel-reeves-claim-thousands-energy-support-winter-fuel

OP posts:
Clavinova · 11/09/2024 16:04

The temporary scheme

Labour had a similar policy that lasted from 2007 - 2010;

Feb 2010
Labour was last night accused of a cynical election ploy after scrapping its controversial early release scheme for prisoners only weeks before polling day.

Jack Straw announced the ending of the scheme, which has resulted in nearly 80,000 offenders walking free 18 days before their sentence reaches its halfway point.

Known officially as End of Custody Licence, the scheme has been contentious since its introduction in 2007.

Prisoners set free early have allegedly carried out 1,512 offences including three murders, and rapes and assaults.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252953/Labours-early-prisoner-release-scheme-scrapped.html

SerendipityJane · 11/09/2024 15:30

Prison really is the paradigm of when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I suspect that if you doubled the prison spaces - or trebled them - then in a few years time we'd be back here wondering "why are our prisons full ?". It's a little like putting a bucket under a leak, and instead of fixing the leak, wondering why every bigger bucket you put in place ends up getting full.

Sadly - like most things in a mature society - what works, and what wins votes are very rarely the same thing.

So, as always, as you were.

ArabellaScott · 11/09/2024 15:24

Idratherbepaddleboarding Flowers I'm so sorry, it sounds horrendous.

Aroastdinnerisnotahumanright · 11/09/2024 15:00

This government is shaping up to be an appalling failure.

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