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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Encouraged to use pronouns in email signature

54 replies

dillydallydaily · 04/09/2024 22:43

So there have been a few conversations and emails lately from colleagues letting us know how to add our pronouns to our email signature. It's all mentioned in the context of inclusion and diversity. I personally don't want to, my personal reasons, but I feel that I may be in a minority or frowned upon if I don't. What are your thoughts/experience on this?

OP posts:
Notahandmaid · 05/09/2024 13:08

I would not do it. As someone else said further up, there'll be people who won't want to do it either, and people who can't be bothered, and others who won't be able to work out how to do it so I doubt you'll be in a small minority too. I think a lot of people who do it are sheep who don't really understand the ideology that they're inadvertently subscribing to if they do add theirs.

If anyone ever spoke to me about adding mine, I would say I don't subscribe to gender ideology and am not prepared to add my pronouns to work/social bios.

This would also be my response if asked to share my pronouns in a meeting which, thankfully, I never have been.

My organisation has not mandated the use of pronouns but they have issued a guide on their use. Anytime I see someone with their pronouns included on something, and these are usually sensible people, I think 'idiot'.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/09/2024 11:37

WhatAMessWales · 05/09/2024 11:23

Here's how I responded when I was told that we should now add our pronouns to our personal page on our intranet, so that they could then be added to the public website.

Boss had clearly not considered that anyone might not be thrilled about doing this. Instruction was rephrased. Pretty much everyone else has filled out the pronoun field in the internal template, but the suggestion of adding them to our public information seems to have been dropped.

> I don't do pronoun statements. I won't be adding preferred pronouns to my staff page, and I do not consent to pronouns being added to my online staff profile, email footer etc.

I'm uncomfortable at this being introduced as an instruction with no opt out or acknowledgement that this may not be something that everyone wants to do. Compulsory pronoun announcements are not inclusive of people who are uncomfortable about their gender and do not want to make public statements about it, and are equally uncomfortable for people who do not consider themselves to have a gender identity independent of their sex and don't want to make statements about that either.

In addition, conscious and unconscious biases about women's voices and authority mean that drawing attention to a woman's sex in the workplace may make their work harder by activating and reinforcing unhelpful stereotypes. I don't want to be forced to do so when sex/gender should be irrelevant to my job.

This is a sensitive area, and I've no wish to cause friction or be forced to make some kind of stand in front of the team. I have no objection to other people sharing their pronouns, and I will do my best to courteously respect people's wishes about how they're addressed, but stating my pronouns is something I will not do, just as I'm sure you would not agree to recite the Lord's prayer before a meeting.

That's an excellent email.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/09/2024 11:35

jammypancakes · 05/09/2024 11:08

Interesting. maybe we should all put "he" and if anyones asks if you're trans, you say no, and point them to this bit of research 😆

Sadly, that's why I used my initials, not full name when I published scientific papers.

Edited

Very sensible as research shows women are cited less than men. Sadly I didn't know that when I started publishing so used my name. On the plus side it is an Irish name so many people would not know it was a female name.

WhatAMessWales · 05/09/2024 11:23

Here's how I responded when I was told that we should now add our pronouns to our personal page on our intranet, so that they could then be added to the public website.

Boss had clearly not considered that anyone might not be thrilled about doing this. Instruction was rephrased. Pretty much everyone else has filled out the pronoun field in the internal template, but the suggestion of adding them to our public information seems to have been dropped.

> I don't do pronoun statements. I won't be adding preferred pronouns to my staff page, and I do not consent to pronouns being added to my online staff profile, email footer etc.

I'm uncomfortable at this being introduced as an instruction with no opt out or acknowledgement that this may not be something that everyone wants to do. Compulsory pronoun announcements are not inclusive of people who are uncomfortable about their gender and do not want to make public statements about it, and are equally uncomfortable for people who do not consider themselves to have a gender identity independent of their sex and don't want to make statements about that either.

In addition, conscious and unconscious biases about women's voices and authority mean that drawing attention to a woman's sex in the workplace may make their work harder by activating and reinforcing unhelpful stereotypes. I don't want to be forced to do so when sex/gender should be irrelevant to my job.

This is a sensitive area, and I've no wish to cause friction or be forced to make some kind of stand in front of the team. I have no objection to other people sharing their pronouns, and I will do my best to courteously respect people's wishes about how they're addressed, but stating my pronouns is something I will not do, just as I'm sure you would not agree to recite the Lord's prayer before a meeting.

jammypancakes · 05/09/2024 11:08

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/09/2024 10:04

There is also a body of research that shows drawing attention to a woman's sex has a detrimental effect on her career progression and how seriously she is taken in the workplace. Adding pronouns is drawing attention to your sex.

Interesting. maybe we should all put "he" and if anyones asks if you're trans, you say no, and point them to this bit of research 😆

Sadly, that's why I used my initials, not full name when I published scientific papers.

LargeSquareRock · 05/09/2024 10:36

RickiRaccoon · 05/09/2024 05:34

I do it. We have such an email culture at my work that I haven't met a lot of people I might need to mention so I can refer to them appropriately. My name's pretty obviously gendered but there are a lot of unisex ones out there.

I have a unisex name and nothing bad has ever happened. If someone thought I was a bloke prior to meeting me or speaking to me on the phone, that didn’t affect me in any way whatsoever.

GrumpyPanda · 05/09/2024 10:09

If this is something that's not coming from top-down but overzealous individual colleagues you might want to respond with a reply-all pointing out the bias hazards to women pointing out their sex in a work context. Don't have appropriate citations at hand right now but I'm sure another viper will be at hand in a moment to help out.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 05/09/2024 10:04

There is also a body of research that shows drawing attention to a woman's sex has a detrimental effect on her career progression and how seriously she is taken in the workplace. Adding pronouns is drawing attention to your sex.

Gettingbysomehow · 05/09/2024 09:51

I absolutely will not use my pronouns in my emails. I'm the only one at work who won't and it is a hill I will die on. If they can't work out I'm a woman by my email photo and name then they are either too stupid to work there or need to go to specsavers.

Chrysanthemum5 · 05/09/2024 09:45

We had an email last week which told us all about some information we had to add to our signatures for legal reasons (charity status etc) but then it also said and please add your pronouns. I clarified that it wasn't compulsory to add pronouns and asked that was made clear to people. They haven't so I've told my team it's up to them.

I think they deliberately tied it in with something compulsory in order to force people to comply

MontagueMoo · 05/09/2024 09:44

Just don't add them. Between people forgetting, not being arsed, or having an active objection to it I doubt you'll be in a tiny minority, nor that it will be frowned upon. Don't make yourself a victim.

We had an email at my work. A few people did it, most didn't.

SleepGoalsJumped · 05/09/2024 09:43

It would be illegal discrimination to enforce this for several reasons.

  • it is effectively enforcing people to go along with a belief in gender ideology. It has been legally established that it's a legitimate belief system to reject gender ideology.
  • even if you do believe, forcing pronouns in signatures require people to "out themselves" or to commit to something while still exploring their options.

If you get really stuck - I did see whilst on a university campus recently that several members of the Student Union rep team had "any pronouns fine" in the pronouns slot, so that seems an acceptable way to fill the gap without having to declare your beliefs.

MagpiePi · 05/09/2024 09:38

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/09/2024 09:28

And what’s the worst that happens if you get the sex wrong? In my last job my boss asked me to call a Billy, and I said yes I’ll call him, and he said oh Billy is a woman, no big deal. If I had t known I would’ve quickly found out when I spoke to her.

This is how it used to happen.
Why have we got to such a compliant and submissive place now that misgendering someone is considered to be the same as, if not worse than literally wanting them dead?

lunar1 · 05/09/2024 09:36

Bit of a cop out I know, but I respond with 'I don't agree with forcing people to out themselves'

carrotcard · 05/09/2024 09:34

I deliberately use a shortened version of my name that is "unisex" as I often get more respect if people assume I'm male

carrotcard · 05/09/2024 09:33

Say you don't want to put pressure on people to declare their pronouns if they aren't ready to "out" themselves yet

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/09/2024 09:28

RickiRaccoon · 05/09/2024 05:34

I do it. We have such an email culture at my work that I haven't met a lot of people I might need to mention so I can refer to them appropriately. My name's pretty obviously gendered but there are a lot of unisex ones out there.

And what’s the worst that happens if you get the sex wrong? In my last job my boss asked me to call a Billy, and I said yes I’ll call him, and he said oh Billy is a woman, no big deal. If I had t known I would’ve quickly found out when I spoke to her.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/09/2024 09:26

I’m not happy to use them out of courtesy either any more. Being polite is what’s got us quagmired in this nonsense

ThatsNotMyTeen · 05/09/2024 09:24

I just wouldn’t, and if asked why I’d explain why.

couldnt give a fuck whether it’s frowned on

KhakiShaker · 05/09/2024 09:23

Princessfluffy · 05/09/2024 08:14

I like that approach. Happy to use the pronouns others prefer out of courtesy but if I myself don't care about people accidentally misgendering me there is no need for me to state pronouns about myself.

This exactly. If pronouns are important to someone they will state them and I’ll use them to be respectful. I don’t add mine to my signature because I don’t really care what pronouns others use for me and I’m happy for assumptions to be made.

WickedSerious · 05/09/2024 09:22

AlisonDonut · 05/09/2024 08:16

What actually happened to the people who had unisex names before you put pronouns in your email?

Good question.

I have a unisex name and I've never been hospitalised as a result of it.

Cambiarenome · 05/09/2024 09:13

RickiRaccoon · 05/09/2024 05:34

I do it. We have such an email culture at my work that I haven't met a lot of people I might need to mention so I can refer to them appropriately. My name's pretty obviously gendered but there are a lot of unisex ones out there.

This has nothing to do with people having unisex names.

AlisonDonut · 05/09/2024 08:16

RickiRaccoon · 05/09/2024 05:34

I do it. We have such an email culture at my work that I haven't met a lot of people I might need to mention so I can refer to them appropriately. My name's pretty obviously gendered but there are a lot of unisex ones out there.

What actually happened to the people who had unisex names before you put pronouns in your email?

Princessfluffy · 05/09/2024 08:14

I like that approach. Happy to use the pronouns others prefer out of courtesy but if I myself don't care about people accidentally misgendering me there is no need for me to state pronouns about myself.

ScarlettSunset · 05/09/2024 06:53

I don't add pronouns. We are 'invited to' but not told we have to. I was previously worked somewhere that it was more strongly 'encouraged'. It seems I must have a had a memory blindspot though as I just kept forgetting to add them...
I honestly don't care if someone uses the wrong pronouns about me. It's just not something that bothers me so why would I feel the need to add them?