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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandyford no longer to provide 'gender care' for children and young people

57 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/09/2024 17:21

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jpy8l0weyo

'Gender services for children and young people in Scotland will now be delivered by paediatricians in a regional network of clinical settings instead of at the existing Sandyford clinic in Glasgow. '

'Access to the service is now only available following referral from a clinician, which Ms Minto said was in line with other child and adolescent specialist services.
New National Standards for Gender Identity Care include a commitment that young people will be screened for neurodevelopmental conditions and autism during initial assessments for gender dysphoria.
A new training framework is to be introduced too, aimed at improving specialist skills of staff who will work within an "evidence-based" approach.
Detailed care plans will be required for each patient to transfer from children's to adult services.

Supporters of the Gender Recognition Reform Bill (Scotland) take part in a protest outside the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, ahead of a debate on the bill

Gender services for children moved out of Sandyford clinic

Gender services for children and young people will now be delivered by paediatricians in a regional network of clinical settings, instead of at the existing Sandyford clinic in Glasgow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jpy8l0weyo

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AmaryllisNightAndDay · 29/09/2024 13:50

"NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, which runs Sandyford, investigated the complaint but did not uphold his concerns.

The issues were escalated to Scotland’s Independent National Whistleblowing Officer (INWO), who noted new procedures had been introduced in 2021 and under this guidance some previous cases would have been handled differently. However, it ruled out failure or risk to patients."

So Sinead Watson was just a figment of our overheated imaginations?

OldCrone · 29/09/2024 10:26

I don't think that's it @Myalternate, not least because most of the middle aged men who decide they have a womanly essence have already fathered children.

The reason for recruiting children is to support their claim that they were 'born that way' and have believed themselves to really be the opposite sex since childhood. So they invent stories about their own childhood and recruit children to be 'just the same as they were' when they were younger.

Conveniently missing out the part where they got married, fathered children and then realised that they got off on wearing their wife's knickers.

Myalternate · 29/09/2024 10:00

I read or heard someone say something along the lines of the reason they come for our children is because Transgenders can’t have children themselves. To continue Transgenderism they need new bloodlines.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/09/2024 07:36

The similarities with GIDs at the Tavistock are remarkable - and I suppose child healthcare the world over. Transactivists having excess influence and being able to infiltrate medical practice and ethics involving children.
I do hope that some of these people will be held accountable for their ethical and medical failures in the future.

ArabellaScott · 29/09/2024 07:29

I can't imagine being a doctor who cared about children's welfare and overseeing this shitshow while being unable to stop it . From his whistleblowing report:

'The document says that by 2021 the Scottish government “began championing trans-rights issues including self-determination … blurring the distinction between biological sex and gender in law”. It alleges that a “lack of objectivity in staff assessing gender patients” developed amid this, including an “overly affirmative stance in line with the sociopolitical narrative”.
It also describes “fear of challenge among the staff group which relates to said narrative, as any questioning is deemed transphobic”.
The document states: “In particular, the young person’s service appears to have adopted an overly affirmative stance in their assessment process as illustrated by the numerous clinical examples above, all of which evidence relatively brief interactions and onward referral to endocrinology (hormone) services for medical intervention despite there being significant mental health issues in several cases and this seems to be at odds with the approach of the adult'

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lcakethereforeIam · 28/09/2024 23:30

The Times has a new article

https://archive.is/xEtZY

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/top-sandyford-doctor-raised-the-alarm-about-gender-clinic-in-2021-dgj58k0tv

The top Doctor there voiced his concern over an overly affirmative approach, politicalisation and staff worried about being accused of transphobia. His concerns were dismissed. I see these dismissals as complacency at best, as evidence of how deep the rot was at worst. The current lot cite these dismissals as evidence that everything was fiiiine.

Top Sandyford doctor raised the alarm about gender clinic in 2021

A whistleblowing report leaked to The Sunday Times shows that David Gerber was worried staff lacked caution when sending young people for reassignment treatment

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/top-sandyford-doctor-raised-the-alarm-about-gender-clinic-in-2021-dgj58k0tv

BonfireLady · 05/09/2024 06:42

Igneococcus · 05/09/2024 05:22

Thank you for the share token.

It doesn't say anything new but the way that it says it all is very accessible to anyone. To the point where I think it could draw people in who have never had an interest in this before.

Quite often these articles are full of phrases that must sound weird if you've not done a deep dive in to the subject ("gender critical" for example) and I bet many people just scroll past. Or if they are in layman speak, they are vacuous and say nothing much more than "culture wars blah blah". This one has an eye-catching headline and the content gives the unavoidable takeaway that this is an unfolding disaster. And this time it's about cross-sex hormones specifically, not puberty blockers. There are whole paragraphs within it that raise eyebrows.
This one looks pretty stark, when you have already read the context above it:

New guidance for NHS staff issued in Scotland this week says staff must be able to “explain that the basis for proceeding [with hormones] is primarily based upon someone’s self report and there is no guarantee that endocrine treatment will offer benefit to them, or to the extent desired”.

To me, within the context of the whole article (and "experimenting" in the headline), this just reads as though they are being told to issue a disclaimer, not medical advice.

And to anyone who has already read that paragraph, the comment from the Scottish government sounds farcical:

Jenni Minto, the public health minister, was questioned about the guidance in place for GPs in Holyrood on Tuesday. She told MSPs: “We have been clear in our responses that it is the specialist centres that will be in charge of determining the support that children and young people get in this area.”

There is nothing "specialist" about giving someone a life-changing drug with unknown side effects, based on their own self-diagnosis.

ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 16:32

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/09/2024 16:05

As puberty begins for a significant % of girls while they're at primary schools is it proposed that hundreds of pre pubertal girls will be shipped off to Assisted Conception Units to have arrangements made to harvest their eggs etc?

Women know how invasive, painful and challenging this can be. The idea that there are people in the Scottish medical profession proposing this for mentally vulnerable young children defies belief 😱

My reading is that only post pubertal children/young people will go to Assisted Conception Units. It's not clear what stage of puberty they mean, though. Hoping there will be more detail.

I'd also like to know what they base this all on. WPATH are no-nos, apparently, since NHS Scotland had to report theyselves to the police for sharing the Eunuch porn link.

So on what basis are they working out their 'treatment' pathways? For a condition, we should remember, that is 'not a mental illness' so presumably not an illness at all.

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ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 16:29

Well, we knew the Scottish government are well beyond saving! They will be out, resoundingly out, next year.

They are still working on guidance or something for children/young people, I think, due out soon-ish.

I suppose what we need to ask is how will Labour be any different?

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INeedAPensieve · 04/09/2024 16:21

This is awful. Just awful. I have just read the wings over Scotland article posted further up. LGBTYS grubby hands over things as well. We are fucked. My children especially my autistic wee one is fucked. I'm so angry with the Scottish government. They are beyond redemption now they are all evil in my eyes. Sorry. Feeling so angry and emotional about this. And scared.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/09/2024 16:05

ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 13:52

Jesus, read this:

'Currently, for pre-pubertal children, GICs will provide information about fertility with a referral for fertility preservation being made, where appropriate, for young people after the onset of puberty.
The service for young people and adults is carried out in Assisted Conception Units. The procedures for preservation of fertility involve a process of appointments, investigations and procedures and are potentially traumatic.'

As puberty begins for a significant % of girls while they're at primary schools is it proposed that hundreds of pre pubertal girls will be shipped off to Assisted Conception Units to have arrangements made to harvest their eggs etc?

Women know how invasive, painful and challenging this can be. The idea that there are people in the Scottish medical profession proposing this for mentally vulnerable young children defies belief 😱

WarriorN · 04/09/2024 15:47

I've been reading this thread with growing horror, wtaf

Helleofabore · 04/09/2024 14:19

And all for what people actively dismiss as 'gender affirming care'.

And people wonder why we state clearly that the political aspect of that movement is so discriminatory against female people. And so fucking harmful.

Helleofabore · 04/09/2024 14:17

ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 13:52

Jesus, read this:

'Currently, for pre-pubertal children, GICs will provide information about fertility with a referral for fertility preservation being made, where appropriate, for young people after the onset of puberty.
The service for young people and adults is carried out in Assisted Conception Units. The procedures for preservation of fertility involve a process of appointments, investigations and procedures and are potentially traumatic.'

This is disappointing to read.

However, FUCK! I cannot conceive the pain and the potential health issues of pumping an under 18 girl's body full of hormones to stimulate ovulations. With all the risks.

And then to start her on testosterone! WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!

ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 13:52

Jesus, read this:

'Currently, for pre-pubertal children, GICs will provide information about fertility with a referral for fertility preservation being made, where appropriate, for young people after the onset of puberty.
The service for young people and adults is carried out in Assisted Conception Units. The procedures for preservation of fertility involve a process of appointments, investigations and procedures and are potentially traumatic.'

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ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 13:51

'The overarching conclusion from the review by Dr Cass and the sum of the evidence presented in the systematic reviews suggests that there is inadequate evidence for the use of puberty-suppressing hormones or regarding the longer-term risks. In addition, whilst gender-affirming hormones may be the right treatment for some young people, we do not have sufficient evidence to know which children or young people will benefit most.
We agree with the review conclusions that, at the present time, there is insufficient evidence to support the benefits of puberty-suppressing hormones and that the risks of harm remain a significant potential concern.
We understand that it is this emerging evidence base that has led to clinicians across the UK deciding, in their professional opinion, that they no longer feel it is clinically appropriate or safe to continue prescribing puberty suppressants for children and young people with new presentations in GICs.
In the situation where there is an insufficient evidence base to support either efficacy or potential harm, it would be clinically and scientifically unsafe to proceed without further clinical trial evidence from properly designed trials. This is not just the case for puberty supressing hormones but for other medicines too.'

My emphasis.

'In Scotland, clinicians in NHS GGC and NHS Lothian have already identified concerns about the use of gender-affirming hormones in those under 18 years of age due to rising levels of concern around the short- and long-term use of these medicines in this age group. For this reason, they have paused the use of these medicines in those aged under 18 years in Scotland.
We are of a view that, as part of an individualised approach to care, there should be caution and a clear rationale for providing gender-affirming hormones for individuals aged under 18 years and where this happens it should be part of a shared decision-making conversation and be recorded. We would also suggest that further UK-wide research should evaluate the use of gender-affirming hormones in young people aged under 18 years which is linked to the wider aspirations of recommendation 8.
Medical Directors and Directors of Pharmacy should assure themselves that they are content that they have clear governance processes in place that include treatment protocols, multi-disciplinary peer support to clinicians prescribing in this area and clear professional line management and support.'

https://www.gov.scot/publications/cass-review-implications-scotland/pages/4/

So they are pressing on with cross sex hormones for children. So long as it's 'caution' and there's a 'clear rationale'.

I wonder what this 'rationale' looks like. And who is sharing this 'shared decision making'?

Cass Review – implications for Scotland: findings report

The Chief Medical Officer established a multidisciplinary clinical team to consider, in the context of Scottish services, the recommendations of the NHS England commissioned Cass Review on gender identity services for young people. That work is now com...

https://www.gov.scot/publications/cass-review-implications-scotland/pages/4

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ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 13:42

https://wingsoverscotland.com/your-children-will-be-harmed/

'There are thousands of words of boilerplate waffle and impenetrable jargon in the flurry of documentation that the Scottish Government released yesterday, but the few lines that we’ve highlighted above betray the reality of the situation and render everything else meaningless.
Far from being accepted, the findings of the Cass Review will be comprehensively ignored in Scotland. A maze of smoke and mirrors has been constructed to conceal the truth, but these new protocols and the accompanying guidance provide an easy route for anyone of any age to almost instantly access powerful and permanently life-altering medication without any meaningful scrutiny from a medical professional.'

I need to re-read - I thought I saw something that said that under 18s would not be prescribed hormones as a matter of course?

Your Children Will Be Harmed

This sounds like good news, doesn’t it? But in fact the headline on the STV News website – whether intentionally, through innocent misunderstanding or, as we suspect, a result of being …

https://wingsoverscotland.com/your-children-will-be-harmed

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BonfireLady · 04/09/2024 13:11

rogdmum · 03/09/2024 21:55

It’s not good news. The standards are awful. Absolutely awful. Completely captured, ideological approach:

www.healthcareimprovementscotland.scot/publications/standards-for-gender-identity-healthcare-services-for-adults-and-young-people/

Wow.

This is far worse than I expected, given the post-Cass era that we're now in. It's closer (by a country mile) to the Edinburgh Trans Health manifesto than the Cass Report.

https://www.tumblr.com/edinburghath/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

Seeing it in an NHS font and screen layout is mind-blowing.

TRANS HEALTH MANIFESTO

INTRODUCTION Following the centuries-long repression of trans lives at the hands of the state, the next stage in the UK government's war of bureaucratic attrition is the recent publication of an NHS…

https://www.tumblr.com/edinburghath/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 12:55

I wonder how Scottish GPs feel about this.

'The new Scottish NHS guidelines state that the basis for being prescribed hormones is “primarily based upon someone’s self-report” yet admits there is “no guarantee that endocrine [hormone] treatment will offer benefit to them, or to the extent desired”.'

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ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 12:54

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/scottish-doctors-prescribe-hormones-patients-self-id-risks/

https://archive.ph/0leyA

'GPs will be able to prescribe cross-sex hormones to patients who diagnose themselves as transgender in Scotland under new NHS rules.
Under guidelines published on Tuesday, it is stated that testosterone or oestrogen prescriptions are to be given out to adults “primarily based on someone’s self-report” despite an admission that there is “no guarantee” they will help patients.
Previously, access to a specialist gender clinic was usually required to access hormone treatments on the Scottish NHS.
However, the new rules open the door to GPs being able to prescribe the drugs after taking account of guidance or taking specialist advice.'

Scottish doctors to give ‘dangerous’ hormones to trans patients who self-ID

New guidelines state testosterone or oestrogen can be freely prescribed despite uncertainty about side-effect risks

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/scottish-doctors-prescribe-hormones-patients-self-id-risks

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ArabellaScott · 04/09/2024 12:51

Post from WRN Scotland:

'On the face of it appears the announcement about implementing #CASS was good news but as always the devil is in the detail. The first realisation that something wasn't right came with the lie from
@jenniminto
that our schools don't teach pupils about their gender identity.

Well anyone who has been paying attention this past few weeks would know all about the grip that LGBTYS has on our schools ranging from teaching materials to unsafe school policies on social transition which dismantle safeguarding. Next up two documents were also published today First https://healthcareimprovementscotland.scot/publications/standards-for-gender-identity-healthcare-services-for-adults-and-young-people/#:~:text=Overview%20of%20standards,and%20delivering%20gender%20identity%20services

It will come as no surprise that these standards don't reflect the protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 Including "gender identity" instead of "gender reassignment"

Gender identity is defined as "a person’s sense of having a particular gender. It is a way of describing the gender with which a person identifies such as a trans man, trans woman or as non-binary" Trans people are defined as "An umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs or does not fully correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth. This includes, but is not limited to, trans men, trans women and non-binary people"

Transition is defined as "the process of changing the way a person lives in order to match up with their gender identity. Examples of transitioning include the person changing their name, asking people to use different pronouns to address them and changing the way the person expresses their gender.

For some people, accessing gender identity services will be for support, information and care. For others, it may involve medical treatments such as hormone therapy or surgery. "Transition” can mean different things to different people. Some people prefer the term gender reassignment

Standard 10 refers to standards for gender identity for young people but no definition of young people is provided. We know from other Scottish Government documents that young people includes children Second document https://frameworks.nes.digital/transgender-care-knowledge-and-skills-framework This is the transgender care kmowledge and skills framework which sets 4 levels of knowledge and skill those working in transgender care should have

Similar language is used across both "Please note that we use trans people as an umbrella term for people whose gender identity does not fully correspond with their sex recorded at birth. This includes, but is not limited to, trans men, trans women and non-binary people"

Plus worryingly a disregard of safeguarding issues "Consider the relevance of disclosing a person's gender identity when making a referral to another service. Are aware of the importance of respecting confidentiality around someone’s gender identity, including relevant legal requirements" This all leads us to conclude that
@scotgov
Is paying lip service to the #CASS recommendations with a focus on restructuring health care in Scotland to provide gender affirming care with no focus on evidence based concerns raised in the CASS Review'

https://x.com/WRNScotland/status/1831092716349882767

x.com

https://x.com/hashtag/CASS?src=hashtag_click

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BonfireLady · 03/09/2024 22:11

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 03/09/2024 21:38

I would say you're welcome but it would be a lie to say that I had looked for you! I'd already looked anyway. 😂

Ha!

Yes, plenty of us are wise to the BBC ways when it comes to reporting on this subject. Edits deserve close scrutiny. I'll never forget the shrinking article about the ex-drag queen in Wales that got smaller and less detailed until it disappeared completely.

Obviously it's nothing to do with this story, but here's a link for anyone who's interested:

https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1695083112265322703?t=yjW1Dezojlu9KdRxLd80gw&s=19

I remember watching it change from "ex drag queen" to "man" and all the other edits until it went poof.. and reappeared in its new form. The comments on this tweet help to illustrate its edit journey. There have been other examples. The Isla Bryson coverage went a similar way. Lots of "she" pronouns... then all pronouns gone with sentences reformed, thus avoiding a difficult subject altogether.

x.com

https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1695083112265322703?s=19&t=yjW1Dezojlu9KdRxLd80gw

ArabellaScott · 03/09/2024 22:10

I've just skimmed bits and it all reads so vague and bland it could mean almost anything.

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ArabellaScott · 03/09/2024 22:09

Is it? I'll need to read them tomorrow. <sigh>

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