‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

Yes, it's a joke. It's funny. I feel sorry for you lot sometimes.

Aaaaand here comes the disingenuous denial. So demure!

So a person from outside an opressed class of people can make jokes and be celebrated for fighting the stereotypes of that oppression class, while being seen as part of the oppressed class of people that they are not.

Can you name what other opressed class of people you would find this acceptable for? Race? Would you accept it for race?

Its a joke ffs.

Woah, whole boatload of projection here. Who’s said the things you’ve claimed? Quote their posts so we can see the evidence you claim is there.

I’ve been reading the whole thread getting increasingly mystified as to why you’re engaging in a discussion while not reading, comprehending or responding to the points posters are making. You set off from the start with a load of dramatic hyperbole and have continually posted at emotional tangents since, while remaining silent when posters seek to engage you and get you to think critically instead of just declaiming an already set view.

Why the silence from you in respect of the queries about if you would support Rachel Dolezal doing similar to the person in the BBC article on race? It comes across as you not wishing to question your own beliefs.

Your posting smacks of an already -set cognitive bias that you are desperately seeking to uphold by acting in denial of any evidence to the contrary. Quite why you operate this way is not clear, but you’d do well to reflect on it, as this style of thinking won’t serve you well in life.

Oh come on. This is a really bigoted thread. It's a joke, my dds say it. The person who said it first is trans, so what?

Firstly, males with trans identities are only ever male people. They are not women.

And this is not about make up.

But please. Do keep posting because the more you do, the more those reading will see the repeated arguments that you seem to not be able to discuss with any rationality.

The issue is not that this male person is wearing make up. I don’t know many people in the world who think make up is a ‘female’ thing since the 80s.

The issue is the misogyny that comes from declaring that someone is female when they are male, and celebrating them supposedly flouting sexist stereotypes while actually using those stereotypes to be a ‘female flouting stereotypes’. Which is just continuing the misogyny of those same sexist stereotypes that female people have had to deal with for a millennia.

Like Mumsnet then lol

This.

A win for the people profiting from lifelong medical intervention.

Made enough money to pay for ‘transition’ , though. So that’s a win.

Although hasn’t she already ‘transitioned’ in the eyes of the state broadcaster and indeed, all right , sorry, correct thinking people?

Why is this news?

Because ✨trans✨

Also, I suspect the mindful part means mindful of their behaviour, attitudes, decibel level and of course all the men in their lives.

Not meditative.

Maybe also "mindful eating", given the cake example a pp posted?

”Because it is pretty simple. This person is trans. You're angry that they're trans. You're angry that a newstory didn't make a huge deal of it. You're angry they're having 5 minutes of fame. Because they're trans. And trans people in your head shouldn't dare do that. Shouldn't dare exist, be normal, be talked about like they're just normal, like the rest of us, like their transness isn't that important. It makes you furious to see her treated like a normal member of society. Because you don't want trans people to be viewed or treated as normal. There is no explanation for your reaction to this that isn't rooted in bigotry.”

Well. The hyperbole is rife all the way through that post.

You have again misrepresented my view. And you have again shown you have no intention of attempting to.

This is about a MALE person who is mocking the sexist stereotypes that female people have had to deal with for millennia. While being discussed in that article as if they are a woman who is bravely mocking those stereotypes.

They are not.

As I have pointed out, it is that they are male. Not because they are trans.

This person has the male socialisation and the privilege of being male to make these videos where they are flouting the female stereotypes. They are celebrated in this article as if they are female when they are male.

And I am not “furious”, I am not a “bigot” and I am not “denying this person’s existance”. I am clearly questioning why they are being celebrated for being some kind of brave female person as per the language used on the BBC.

Well I've seen the trend on tiktok and it mostly seems to consist of people saying wtf is 'demure' and people cramming cakes in their face and saying ooh look how I eat this cake, very demure, very mindful. The 'damage' seems to be minimal.

Also, I suspect the mindful part means mindful of their behaviour, attitudes, decibel level and of course all the men in their lives.

Not meditative.

FreedomDogs · Today 10:17
It's a joke. Are trans people not even allowed to make jokes now?

SulkySeagull · Today 10:57
It’s a joke.

Can either of you explain this funny joke? Because if you can't then it's not funny and not a joke.

The BBC article is very good. It outlines clearly the tension between something that was said as a joke, and which is being used largely as exactly that - a piss take of outdated expectations - but which a small number of people are now coopting as some sort of serious aspiration.

It's already wildly over-used on SM, but it did start off being used in quite a funny, irreverent way.

Like seriously even if you believe trans women are men

Of course they're men. Only men can be transwomen.

What's interesting is that the BBC article, in an effort to virtue signal that they believe that TWAW, have tied themselves in knots obfuscating the notion that a male in a dress and make-up might not look demure, by pretending that they think it might not be a joke, as if they didn't clock that Lebron isn't actually the dainty creature they claim to be.

They even had to quote Lebron explaining that it's a joke because the BBC didn't want to risk accusations of transphobia by laughing at the joke without first checking with the source that it was intended as a joke before they laugh at it.

And then, so as not to focus on the juxtaposition of Lebron's presentation with their self-description of said presentation (in case they insinuated anything offensive to trans people), they instead veered off into some random commentary about social media trends and changing language.

That is actually quite funny, thank you for making me look at it that way!