‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

Just highlighting this without comment.

Nope.

Because it’s not lots of people saying it, It’s actually very few people who are saying the same thing over and over, changing MN usernames periodically.

Right, *FreedomDogs’?

The vast majority of humans worldwide know that TW are not W, because they are male.

No. Because people also say things like male people are ‘women’. Just having people repeat accusations for not complying to their personal philosophical belief also doesn’t make either the accusations or the statement about someone’s identity true.

The only thing I'm 'frothing' about is the what is in the BBC News article, which I have seen.

Even if you believe that they're male - what precisely is the problem with them wearing make up?

No one is expecting you to fawn. It's a meme that's gone viral. Feel free to utterly ignore it if it's not for you.

The funny joke is that no transwoman is expected to be demure and mindful.

Because while the cry is "TWAW", they don't get policed like women, or treated like women and can wear and do what the fuck they like (and don't they just).

I'm sorry but no human being can possibly reach this far without pulling a tendon.

If people are frequently saying these things to you, doesn't that suggest there might actually be some truth in it?

I see no frothing. I guess it depends on the view.

@Katkins17 its not a joke about women though is it? They are taking the piss out of themselves! Their own behaviour, not the behaviour of women.

This whole thread is people frothing at the mouth about something they haven’t even seen. It’s ridiculous.

Women who have lived a life of abuse, even the 'low level' gaslighting we're all subjected to can become demure and mindful in response. Fucking hilarious isn't it?

This. And I bet that very context is in the back of many women's minds when they read those words.

Policing women is all about control.

I don't know LunaNorth, I really don't know. Are there trans women who don't parody women, who don't colonise the female experience and claim it to be their own? Trans women are trans women, I can no more identify with their experience than they with mine. I can respect them as trans, can they respect my boundary?

Going back to the original post, demure and mindful. Interesting that the BBC illustrated this with a picture of Diana - that says it all. Because, of course, demure and mindful is suppression of the self, often due to trauma. Diana sums it up. Another poster this week was asking if one can lose one's identity because of trauma - yes, we become demure and mindful. Women who have lived a life of abuse, even the 'low level' gaslighting we're all subjected to can become demure and mindful in response. Fucking hilarious isn't it? Silly girls...

There are a handful of gender transitioned males who I quite like, all of them are realistic about not being women (being that you can’t actually be a TW unless you are born male) all of them have come to understand the limits of medical/surgical transition as a treatment for gender dysphoria.

Off the top of my head, Miranda, Fionne, Seven Hex, a new YouTuber with a channel called TheMaryChu.

m.youtube.com/@themarychulive/videos

I loved Wayne/Jayne County back in the day - went to a Madam JoJos gig years ago, Pete Burns was there, I was very fond of Pete Burns and am still saddened now that his low self esteem led to his early death.

Pete Burns was proof that you can wear whatever you like, have whatever feminising surgeries you can afford (even very unwise ones) and still be a bloke.

A unique bloke with a quick and viscous humour. Rip (sic) Pete.

I reckon we can call BINGO! now, and probably full house.

We have had so many ‘bigots’, ‘you hate trans people’, ‘you don’t want trans people to exist’, even a weak arsed ‘you believe transwomen are men’. It has been an eyeopener.

Very very sadly I think transmen are expressing misogyny too (as are many anorexic women) damaging their own female bodies as an attack on woman-ness. I like to be friends with people, but while mental illness deserves compassion, it can make it hard to form relationships.

That was my 1st reaction.😆😆

I guess we’re neither. Oh well 🤷‍♀️

What part of a male person describing themselves as a female person, using the language that is needed for female people to describe themselves as being unique from male people is no misogyny?

How is a male person’s own conceptualisation of what a female person’s life is so that they can claim that description for what they feel not misogyny? They can only do this by allocating stereotypes as male and female and choosing they how they live and feel is ‘female’.

So, it is only ever a philosophical belief that they are a ‘woman’. It is nothing else.

Claiming that these men are women is misogyny.

And please go to the threads where we all started out campaigning for transwomen. There are multiple. When they started claiming the women category, most of us started to see really clearly and we are pushing back, hard. You want to be trans. Fine. Don't take hard worn rights away from women while you do it is all.

I wonder if Isla Bryson identifies as demure & mindful?

Do you think there could possibly be a situation where you might be friends with a transwoman in real life?

What exactly is this supposed to indicate? I might find them interesting company socially, as I do many male people. Am I likely to be BFF with a male who believes that stereotypes, rather than being female, is what being a woman is about? Unlikely.

But when transwomen (men) are in the news discussing items ie being demure that only fucking affect women then yes it is a fucking insult because they do not and can not understand because they are men with male entitlement to not be judged.