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Original poster

‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

592 replies

LunaNorth · 25/08/2024 10:10

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm23zye08j4o

So this trend. I’m bridling at the ‘demure and mindful’ bullshit being promoted by someone who is performing femininity.

Demure and mindful women seldom make history. Here we go again, being sent back into our boxes by men.

Jools Lebron on Jimmy Kimmel Live

Very demure, very mindful - are we missing joke of Jools Lebron trend?

A demure TikTok has gone viral, but is it an ironic joke or does it set unrealistic standards for women?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm23zye08j4o

OP posts:
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BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 25/08/2024 15:34

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:31

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Jools LeBron is a woman.

Moreover this whole demure and mindful comedy trend has naff all to do with ‘oppression of women’. It’s just a TikTok trend responding to brat summer.

Jools LeBron is a transwoman, the only feature that unifies all transwomen are that they are male. Born male, stay male, die male. Sex is not changeable

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:33

Jools LeBron is a woman.

No, Jools Lebron is male. Women are female.

StealthSpinach · 25/08/2024 15:33

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:31

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Jools LeBron is a woman.

Moreover this whole demure and mindful comedy trend has naff all to do with ‘oppression of women’. It’s just a TikTok trend responding to brat summer.

Oh my! More laughs, lucky me!

Is that you, David?

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:33

@StealthSpinach I have no clue what your line of argument is there. It makes no sense.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:32

I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Oh wow, we've definitely never heard that one before. You've rather missed the point there.

StealthSpinach · 25/08/2024 15:31

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg not sure what ‘male people’ you’re referring to. The tiktoker in question here is a woman, who happens to be trans.

The tiktoker in the clip is a male, a “transwoman”. To be a transgender identified male - they must be born male (clue is in the name…)

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:31

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus I’m liking the dinosaur reference it your name. It’s appropriate.

Jools LeBron is a woman.

Moreover this whole demure and mindful comedy trend has naff all to do with ‘oppression of women’. It’s just a TikTok trend responding to brat summer.

Helleofabore · 25/08/2024 15:30

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg not sure what ‘male people’ you’re referring to. The tiktoker in question here is a woman, who happens to be trans.

They are a male person.

They have not changed sex. They are not part of the oppressed class of people that are female and had ‘demure’ used in a way that caused them harm.

This is a male person who is being celebrated here. The language the BBC uses leaves the impression this is a female person being celebrated.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 25/08/2024 15:28

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg not sure what ‘male people’ you’re referring to. The tiktoker in question here is a woman, who happens to be trans.

The tiktokker in question is a male who identifies as a transwoman.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:27

No.

ElleWoods15 · 25/08/2024 15:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg not sure what ‘male people’ you’re referring to. The tiktoker in question here is a woman, who happens to be trans.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:23

A lot of these male people would love to be called "demure", I'm sure.

Datun · 25/08/2024 15:21

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:16

It's not a joke "about the oppressed", it's a joke about wearing make up, which is not an innate feature of the oppressed group, and which other people outside that group can also do

It's not a joke about wearing make up, is it, it's about being "demure" which is not an adjective people ever apply to men. So disingenuous.

Oh come on, Eresh. How can you have forgotten all those times throughout history where men have been criticised for not being 'demure'.

Thepurplecar · 25/08/2024 15:17

FreedomDogs · 25/08/2024 13:15

I'm sorry but no human being can possibly reach this far without pulling a tendon.

Show quote history

Lots of us have had our tendons pulled, amongst other things. You haven't - congratulations, no need for you to listen to anyone else because you already know it all - go ahead and enjoy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:16

It's not a joke "about the oppressed", it's a joke about wearing make up, which is not an innate feature of the oppressed group, and which other people outside that group can also do

It's not a joke about wearing make up, is it, it's about being "demure" which is not an adjective people ever apply to men. So disingenuous.

FreedomDogs · 25/08/2024 15:15

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:13

If you don't understand what the issue is @FreedomDogs I thought another poster summed it up very well.

when that person is from the same cohort as the oppressors, then making jokes about the oppressed, even if intended to be ironic, is tone deaf.

It's not a joke "about the oppressed", it's a joke about wearing make up, which is not an innate feature of the oppressed group, and which other people outside that group can also do

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:13

If you don't understand what the issue is @FreedomDogs I thought another poster summed it up very well.

when that person is from the same cohort as the oppressors, then making jokes about the oppressed, even if intended to be ironic, is tone deaf.

Datun · 25/08/2024 15:13

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:11

It's about whether it's reasonable to "bridle" because a trans women did a silly meme.

No, you're thinking of AIBU. This is FWR and the OP didn't ask whether she was being unreasonable, she just wanted to discuss sexist stereotypes and males mocking women for following them.

Exactly.

And in this scenario, it sure shit isn't the women who are being unreasonable.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 15:11

It's about whether it's reasonable to "bridle" because a trans women did a silly meme.

No, you're thinking of AIBU. This is FWR and the OP didn't ask whether she was being unreasonable, she just wanted to discuss sexist stereotypes and males mocking women for following them.

Datun · 25/08/2024 15:09

FreedomDogs · 25/08/2024 15:03

This thread isn't about why you should think of males as women though. It's about whether it's reasonable to "bridle" because a trans women did a silly meme.

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Was Rachel dolezal being 'silly'?

FreedomDogs · 25/08/2024 15:03

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2024 14:21

In my experience trans rights activists and their supporters have precisely one argument as to why I should think of some males as women.

"Because it's their "identity" and you're mean not to".

They know it's all about stereotypes so they avoid anything to do with that.

This thread isn't about why you should think of males as women though. It's about whether it's reasonable to "bridle" because a trans women did a silly meme.

SummerFade · 25/08/2024 15:03

PurpleSparkledPixie · 25/08/2024 13:57

Someone else has implied they were. So which is it?

BTW, you still haven't explained the joke.

RamonaRamirez · Today 12:07
^ the joke is that it was ironic^

a person who is not very demure or mindful (who knows 😁) in fact rather the opposite, being quite OTT and silly, dissing a style she was wearing in her previous video.

she was basically taking the Mickey out of herself and it was funny as sort of unexpected (if you have not seen the original video, picture someone in full on drag clutching her pearls and tutting about being demure) it’s the juxta position of the outfit (and previous outfits) that makes it funny

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Sounds about as funny as a cup of cold sick. 🤷🏻‍♀️

BunfightBetty · 25/08/2024 15:01

So, I didn't realise that the person was trans. I do think that that alters things significantly for me. It's one thing being female or from a certain group and being self depreciating and ironic, but when that person is from the same cohort as the oppressors, then making jokes about the oppressed, even if intended to be ironic, is tone deaf.

Absolutely 💯

Helleofabore · 25/08/2024 14:59

The issue becomes very much clearer when sex based language is used.

There is a huge difference between:

A woman is celebrated for defying sexist female stereotypes.

vs.

A male person is celebrated for defying sexist female stereotypes.

BunfightBetty · 25/08/2024 14:58

Prenelope · 25/08/2024 11:53

Someone posts to say - oh come on, it's a joke.

Response "Why the silence from you in respect of the queries about if you would support Rachel Dolezal doing similar to the person in the BBC article on race? It comes across as you not wishing to question your own beliefs"

Absolute laughable overreaction!

Oh come on, you’re not fooling anyone with the faux naivety.

Only a fool could fail to realise there is a direct equivalence between somebody wanting to claim an identity of a sex they’re not with somebody wanting to claim an identity of a race they’re not.

Anybody who can’t see the equivalence must be so unintelligent that they’re not worth the time of debating with. Is that you? Or would you care to engage with the substance of the query instead of resorting to snide comments? If you don’t think they’re equivalent, why not?