‘Demure and mindful’ - oh great.

One very prominent TW is notorious for criticising and shaming the way women look, behave, speak perhaps you'd like to pop over and tell them how disgusting they are for doing so Elle. I know you won't though because it is only women who must be scolded.

I have read them. Are you talking about the discussion of the ridiculous filtered Khelif PR campaign or do you think that posters pointing out that they are men and we can see that they have male bodies is trying to shame them for their looks

The amount of vitriol that has been poured on these women, particularly focussed around their looks, seeking to shame them, is disgusting.

Where on this thread has anyone said anything about Jools Lebron's looks? Show me the evidence of this. You say it is disgusting to shame people for their looks and yet are supporting Jools Lebron for doing exactly that by supposedly joking about the way women present themselves. You want it both ways - TW must not be criticised for the way they present themselves but are free to criticise women for how they present themselves. Such hypocrisy and sacred caste dogma.

Read some of the threads on here about these women before confidently asserting ‘no one’ was trying to shame them for their looks.

This is a man who literally fetishises womanhood. He thinks it’s something he can buy and put on.

Those saying it’s just TikTok nonsense and the world will have moved on in 5 minutes are absolutely right. However while I can’t stop men being weird about women and sexist but I don’t have to pretend I like it or think it’s funny.

So care to say what is “offensive”, and what is not fact?

Legal identity does not reflect the material reality that a male
person remains male and can not ever be more than their personal conceptualisation of what it means to be female. Is this not fact?

The discussion around Khelif and Ali was discussing male body cues derived through male puberty. It is entirely relevant to the discussion around whether those male athletes should be punching female people. There was some discussion that Khelif should not have to have had a photoshopped promotional video done in any attempt to convince people that Khelif was female.

And the entire point about Tickle was that the app could correctly categorized Tickle as male. Because they are male, despite legally being able to change identification. Still doesn’t change the material reality. Tickle is a male who has changed their identity. Is that also a fact?

You calling them women, is purely your philosophical belief. We are not in a country that enforces compliance to that belief.

No was was seeking to shame Khelif and Lin for their looks. The shame was allowing men to punch women in the face.
No one was seeking to shame Roxy Tickle about his looks. The shame was a man trying to force himself into a female only space

Oh don’t be daft. “Assigned” male? Did the doctor/mid wife just take a random guess? It really isn’t how it works, this is unscientific nonsense.

Observed to be male and still is male. But is immersed in their own fiction that they are female. Or prefer to “present” as female. And prefer to be called “she”. That’s all fine but doesn’t make him female. Or a woman.

So a woman, who happens to be trans

Or, more accurately, So a man, who happens to be trans

There's nothing intrinsically shameful about being male.

@Helleofabore I think we can both agree that shaming others isn’t a constructive way to carry on. I wasn’t seeking to shame, I was pointing out that some of what’s been said is incorrect and is actually pretty offensive.

Take a look back through this thread and also those that have popped up over the last couple of days about Roxie Tickle. Or previous threads about Imani Khelif. The amount of vitriol that has been poured on these women, particularly focussed around their looks, seeking to shame them, is disgusting.

So I’m more than happy if we can all agree that seeking to shame others shouldn’t have a place in this kind of discussion. We can agree on that at least.

Exactly.
Much more succinctly said than my effort.

Probably, the need to obfuscate, confuse and hoodwink the public is paramount but it all falls apart when the public see the evidence with their own eyes.

bollocks

I have read variations of that phrase many times over the last few days: “a woman, who happens to be trans”.

Is it the new mantra?

So your aim is to shame posters on this thread for correctly sexing this male person.

Considering this week alone we have seen a country declare there can be no place that can exclude a male who has declared they are female person and that they should always be treated as a female person. We can now see just how harmful such an ideological view can be when laws are formed where 'gender' is placed at the same priority to sex, so please understand that no one has to comply to your philosophical belief.

No one has to call a male person a woman, or not refer to them as a male person (particularly when it is an important distinction to make), or use preferred pronoun over sex based pronouns.

And we have recently been shown just how meaningless the language that some people demand is and how it IS based on philosophical belief. Why?

Because to be a person with a transgender identity is not based on having gender dysphoria. We have been told this now by professional academics as well as trans people themselves.

Therefore the only commonality for people with transgender identities is that their philosophical belief. Meaning no one needs to comply with another persons philosophical belief. No one. No matter how kind or respectful that person who is trying to shame you (general you) into complying tells you that it is to use the preferred language, it is someone who is demanding that you support their own philosophical belief.

You are totally free to choose to base your own language on using the sometimes centuries old established meanings of words and the established protocols of language that are based around sex. Not someone's identity.

And secondly, the situation with the male boxers has shown us that the word 'cis' is also meaningless and based on someone's philosophical belief.

In fact, because we were reminded that 'cis' means any person 'assigned' female at birth, this also includes those male people who have been incorrectly registered as female. And I am talking about the male people who have differences of sex development where their bodies are capable of processing the testosterone that their testes produce.

What this means is that there is now no words to describe a unique group of female people that reliably means just those female people, either pre or post puberty, who have bodies that are female sexed.

So, Cis is a meaningless word. Using preferred language around describing someone is based on someone else's demand to believe in their philosophical belief. It is purely up to you whether you choose to or not.

Legal identity or not. Legal identity is not relevant to the material reality that male people cannot ever be more than their own conceptualisation of what a female person is.

What you don't get to do, is to shame others for not supporting your belief if they do not choose to.

It is downright offensive to me that you are claiming Jools Lebron is a woman and that Jools Lebron is also claiming to be one.

Not factually or legally incorrect - it is a fact that no human can change sex and the requirement of a GRC for those very few people who have one proves that fact as they are granted a legal fiction. Said legal fiction has restrictions that apply again proof that the person has not changed sex.

There is no crime or otherwise of misgendering either and there won't be. Describing someone by the sex they are is perfectly reasonable.

I don’t know. I think it must be exhausting to try and do the mental gymnastics that makes

So a woman, who happens to be trans

easier to say ‘so a trans woman said’, then ignore the actual problem people have with it.

So a woman, who happens to be trans, said a thing on TikTok which went viral and will be forgotten about in a few weeks.

It must be exhausting to be some of the posters on here....

I’m sorry it offends you that we can see Ms Lebron is male. I’m just not sure why you find it offensive.

It’s like being offended by the weather. Irritating, inconvenient, indeed. Offensive, no.

A man with a GRC is legally a woman. I agree. Obviously they aren’t actually a woman or they wouldn’t need a GRC.

They weren’t assigned male at birth. Their sex was noted, correctly.

They are a man who identities as a woman. Therefore is a trans woman. Who will always be biologically male.

See, I know he thinks that he’s laughing with us. But he isn’t.