Anyone know why the thread about the death of the young transman has been deleted

Such familiar names…

Charlton

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/02/gender-identity-specialists-accuse-psychology-body-of-contributing-to-fear

Mimnagh - can't find the FWR threads I know that we had either via AS or Google.

https://fabnhsstuff.net/fab-stuff/fabtalks-in-conversation-with-dr-christine-mimnagh

A good place to start is to look at who is giving backhanders to who. Think of the money that we know has gone to politicians that from pharmaceutical companies.

'The services are delivered by the following organisations, designated by NHS
England (as of January 2023):

Mastectomy and related chest reconstruction

Brighton Hospital – Nuffield Health
Highgate Private Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
Hull University Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust
Leicester Hospital – Nuffield Health
Mount Stuart Hospital, Torquay
Newcastle Hospital – Nuffield Health
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
Pennine Acute Hospital NHS Trust
Plymouth Hospital – Nuffield Health
Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust

Masculinising genital surgery

Chelsea and Westminster Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
New Victoria Hospital London
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare

Feminising genital surgery

Brighton Hospital – Nuffield Health
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
St George’s University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust'

Improves outcomes for FTMs or MTFs?

'NHS England has received advice from surgeons who specialise in these
procedures that prior treatment with testosterone for a period of six to nine months results in tissue changes that may improve outcomes. This is an expert-opinion based observation and is not supported by research evidence.'

Also from the Service Spec. My bolding.

From the last page of the Service Spec I posted upthread:

' ...to clarify that the following procedure is not funded by NHS
England: reversal of a previous surgical intervention for the treatment of
gender dysphoria that is requested due to regret or other change of mind by an
individual who no longer has a diagnosis of gender dysphoria'

Isn't this exactly what happened to Robbie Tulip? Before surgery is was all gender dysphoria and after surgery he was suddenly a mental health patient with OCD amongst other things?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/

T'he Clinical Reference Group for Adult Gender Dysphoria Services provides independent expert advice to the National Programme Board for Gender Dysphoria Services on the various aspects of the Board’s work.
The clinical members of the CRG are:

• (Chair) Dr Derek Glidden, Consultant Psychiatrist at Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust and NHS England National Specialty Adviser for Gender Dysphoria Services (Adults)
• Ms Tina Rashid, Consultant Urological Surgeon at St George’s University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and NHS England National Clinical Lead for Surgery (Gender Dysphoria)
• Dr Laura Charlton, Consultant Clinical Psychologist, Leeds and York Partnership NHS Foundation Trust
• Dr Christine Mimnagh, General Practitioner and Clinical Lead for Gender Dysphoria Services at Mersey Care NHS Foundation Trust
• Dr Robert Wilson, Consultant in Public Health Medicine.'

Dr Glidden:

'https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1778657667755421742'

'The NHS’s most senior adviser on transgender health, Dr Derek Glidden of the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health, refused to share data about his clinic’s patients with the Cass Review'

And it is a derail….

These terms encompass more than just politics. They embrace an individual's set of beliefs about the world around them: their religion, their politics, ethics, hierarchical beliefs, resistance to change, thoughts on authority, tradition, etc. All combined contribute to where a person sits on the spectrum

Using that definition, was Stalin far left or far right?

I think I'm going to contact my MP about this and the experimental surgeries planned at C&W. He's LD so I'm probably just going to label my self a terfy bigot, but I think I can't assume he won't be open to concerns otherwise that would be bigotry.

I need to have a think about what to write.

I really don't know. I can't find the rationale for why people with gender dysphoria are to be treated using surgery in the first place. Maybe someone with more knowledge knows where to look? I can't find anything on NICE.

Looks like another misapplication of 'spectrum' where the intended term is - I assume - 'continuum', with 'left' wing' and all associated - 'beliefs about the world around them: their religion, their politics, ethics, hierarchical beliefs, resistance to change, thoughts on authority, tradition, etc. All combined contribute to where a person sits on the spectrum.' at one end and 'right wing' with ditto at the other end?

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-20930-001

Look, there is no person in the world with an entirely identical 'set' of beliefs as any other. People often agree on some points and disagree on others. Not everyone of a particular religion are of a specific political leaning, to take one rather obvious example. Even within any religion there are schools with different beliefs, tendencies, leanings, and even within every school there are schisms and differences of opinion, and even within every person we change our minds from time to time.

Your definition of far right is attempting to create a Platonic ideal of a far right supporter. It might be an interesting thought experiment, but it's almost guaranteed to be proven wrong as soon as you try to describe it, because the basic premise (people are one thing or another based on a fixed set of characteristics) is fatally flawed.

Where have you got this definition from, could you expand?

How is that even possible? Is it because those developing NHS policy treatment decisions know full well that there will be a queue of detransitioners in the years ahead?

So perfectly fine for Chelsea and Westminster hospital to cover experimental life altering surgery with extremely high rates of complications on vulnerable young people, which we know from the Tavi scandal was pushed as ‘gender affirming care’ after very few discussions. Then make them pay tens of thousands to reverse it? What could possibly form the rationale for that seemingly unethical and uncaring decision?

Had a quick google and it appears that children up to 26 can be included on their parents policy.
I don't know a huge amount about US medical insurance but I would imagine that employer policies vary. A parent with a senior position may be given a comprehensive policy as a perk that might not be available to the children in more junior position. If that child cannot work due to medical complications they may not be able to afford any decent policy when they turn 26

Found it. Clip from Dr Shayne Taylor at Vanderbilt:

https://tennesseestar.com/the-tennessee-star/vanderbilts-gender-clinic-doctor-trans-surgeries-make-money-for-the-hospital/sberry/2022/09/21/

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4652020-news-article-boston-childrens-hospital-claim-babies-know-they-are-trans-in-the-womb?reply=120633503&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

Copy-pasting a post from that thread that may be pertinent:

"Perfectly usual in the States for young adults to be treated at Children’s Hospitals.

For some really rare conditions people remain with a paeds specialist their whole life as there isn’t an adult service to transition to, but that’s fairly unusual. As a result of that kind of need, however, Boston Children’s now run a clinic for adults - of any age - with congenital heart disease: mostly they’re lifelong BCH patients, but they’ll accept anyone with a qualifying condition.

The transition/turfing out point now is generally between 21 & 26 (latter is when children stop being covered by their parents’ insurance). Lots of people with health conditions requiring hospital care choose to remain with existing consultants/care teams during their undergraduate degree (if they do one) so they’re not making loads of big life changes at once (& you can’t move to adult services before 18) but you do see a certain sort of profile on social media clinging to paeds teams (including their paediatricians) for as long as possible.

BCH’s main cut-off age for treatment is 21. They do run a couple of adult clinics (eg the cardiology one I mentioned earlier) - but they’re for adults who will have spent significant amounts of their childhoods & adolescences in hospital; & who will continue to need regular hospital treatment for the rest of their lives.

BCH offering these surgeries to people in their thirties is absolutely about making as much money as possible from this particular revenue stream. Because, let’s face it, the 35 year olds won’t be patients of 33 years standing, or even 15.

While there are of course always questions in the US about negotiating insurance coverage, why an adult would seek treatment at a children’s hospital they didn’t have a long-standing relationship with raises troubling questions. In their early twenties it could well be someone who’d begun transitioning in their late teens via BCH. Any older & it seems a deeply problematic choice."

Monstrous, and I'm assuming these surgeons aren't doing their best work. It seems possible though that they actually are, at least in some instances, but their best still isn't good enough.

@Catsmere

Could you please send me an Ovarit invite code? TIA ☺️

Also, I recall that US doctor filmed talking about what a fantastic revenue stream gender surgeries were mentioning the repeat/revision/repair procedures as being part of that revenue stream. Can't recall which hospital - perhaps Boston Children's?

UK policy specifically excludes detransition/reversal surgeries, fwiw.

From the last page of the Service Spec I posted upthread:

' ...to clarify that the following procedure is not funded by NHS
England: reversal of a previous surgical intervention for the treatment of
gender dysphoria that is requested due to regret or other change of mind by an
individual who no longer has a diagnosis of gender dysphoria'

Actually, most of my students have heard the terms far right and left but don’t actually understand what the terms mean. Likely because of not really following politics or been exposed to political theory.

NB. For clarity, not suggesting that other poster doesn’t follow politics but just that sometimes when terms are highly familiar to one, to remember they’re not familiar to others. Edited to add might have been sarcasm but that can be v difficult to tell online.

I don't know that this has really occurred to me but it's a good point. Are the revision surgeries usually covered by health insurance? I've heard detransitioning isn't but perhaps that's partly because they've aged out of their parents cover before regret sets in?

I wonder, considering revisions and repairs, there's a perverse incentive to not do your best work. It seems these kids often stick with the same surgeon, that's a whole income stream just from one person. Then there's upselling.

I love that cartoon.

And there's this from Colin Wright which is remarkably accurate and plausibly even worse now.

Oooh, a harbinger of DEI training. No questions or deviation allowed. This is what you WILL believe!

I wonder what your spectrum is?

Maybe it's the Donnie Darko Life Line again.

We've been blessed by a visit from Kitty Farmer. (The film had the personality type locked down quite well - everything so morally clear-cut, total lack of curiosity, and the resultant slavish devotion to very dodgy people).