Israel society debates the right to rape

Wouldn't it be nice if all the effort to derail the thread with whatabouterry about various news sources isn't put into responding to the news sources that haven't provoked whatabouterry to talk about the issue.

It is just so idiotic. Any country that has been activiely at war or (something the UK has a history of) oppressing citizens of a country they are occupying, then has allegations made against it's armed forces of rape, sexual exploitation and worse. (There is a case dating back ot 2012 of a Kenyan woman last seen alive with a British soldier.) And not forgetting Russian soldiers in Ukraine

Obviously in an ideal world there would be no war or conflict. But the reality there is there is. But thanks to the men who participate in this, willingly or conscripted then seem to think that being part of an oppressing groups transfers onto them the right to do what they might want to do as civilians but dont, on prisoners that under the Geneva convention they should be treating with respect.

Apart from the worry I expressed earlier in this thread about that the number of armed conflicts round the world seem to be spreading, is the gut wrenching reality that given the opportunity, men exploit the power they have as soldiers to enact their worst fantasies of torture and rape.

That is what this is about.

Men.

Disgust and condemnation of rape is not Antisemitism.

@Shortshriftandlethal If the reasonableness of rape is even a question in the public arena it is a risk to women and children also, and they could be any ethnicity. People who can be this violent are not that discriminating, in my opinion.

@Shortshriftandlethal

Do you condemn rape? What are your thoughts on the rape and torture of suspected terrorists?

I note you have not made any comment in relation to the OP.

That implies that some parts of Israel think it is ok to rape detainees and others do not, hence a debate. Which is what is happening there between various MKs, on news shows and so on.

which means that your post saying whoever are “generalising Israel and the Israeli people” is just false. If they had been, they’d have said “Israel defends right to rape”

Debate means disagreement.

Hamas are classified as a terrorist organisation, Israel have signed up to the Geneva Convention and various international human rights treaties.

The torture and rape of Palestinians was shown on Israeli TV; it hasn't been made up by anti semites. Members of the public and various members of the government have called for the soldiers responsible to be released because they are defending Israel.

Yes, I am aware that there are allegations without evidence regarding the Swiss based Euro-Med having links to Hamas. I should have said “no proven links”.

The right wing Jerusalem based Israeli funded NGO monitor has been known to fail fact checks and omit facts that may cause harm to the far right government of Israel
mediabiasfactcheck.com/ngo-monitor-bias/

However, given that the source of this story of the brutally raped Palestinian detainee was whistleblown by an Israeli Doctor working at a detention centre hospital to the Times of Israel, I think we can trust that this rape really did happen. We don’t really need to do bias and fact checks regarding Al Jazeera, Euro-Med or NGO monitor…

While we are picking out extreme statements made by extremists and then generalising them in a way which makes them seem representative of Israel or Israeli people, let's look at some of the extreme statements made by Hamas - including those in its founding charter. Would you like to start?

The thread starter suggests that "Israel Debates The Right to Rape".

That is a headline straight from Al Jazeera.

The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor is an ideological advocacy NGO led by Palestinians alleged by Israel to be linked to Hamas. The organization uses the facade of human rights and focuses primarily on demonizing Israel, with no publicly available information on its budget or funding sources.

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor’s current and former Board Chairs appear on a 2013 list published by Israel, of Hamas’ “main operatives and institutions” in Europe"

Ramy Abdu, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor Founder and Chairman
In November 2020, Israel signed an order against Ramy Abdu under Israel’s anti-terrorism law. The order was issued “in relation to his work with the designated terrorist organization ‘

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/#:~:text=Euro%2DMed%20Human%20Rights%20Monitor%20(Euro%2DMed%20Monitor),”%20and%20“war%20crimes.”

The Al Jazeera article never say there was a debate in the Knesset…they simply repeat what Members of the Knesset have really said in public. No different from how Times of Israel reports what MKs say.

The far right faction in the Knesset is pretty powerful in Israel…
https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-mk-justice-officials-who-go-after-soldiers-will-be-prosecuted-as-traitors/

“In a grim threat to judicial officials, far-right MK Limor Son Har-Melech said Thursday that any who prosecute Israeli soldiers for alleged criminal acts during the war in Gaza will themselves be “charged and prosecuted as the lowest of traitors.”

Speaking at a right-wing rally in support of the arrested soldiers on Thursday evening which appeared to include several dozen protesters, Son Har-Melech said she was there to “protect our soldiers” from Military Advocate General Maj. Gen. Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi.

“Our soldiers have enemies abroad who need to be fought, but also enemies at home,” she declared. “Whoever dares lay a hand on our soldiers will be charged and prosecuted as the lowest of traitors.”

“Son Har-Melech was not the only far-right MK to pledge support to the soldiers. A number of MKs and even government ministers took part in the riots at the IDF bases earlier this week.”

What the actual fuck? What….? Killing someone is removing them. Defending yourself may involve hurting them as you push them away. Rape? wtf can they argue about rape?

Sometimes I hate this world.

User6874356 · Today 01:14

No. these are not serious accusations- just more anti Israel and antisemitic hate.

So, are you saying that the leaked video of the gang rape is anti-Semitic hate? OK, you support Israel and that's fine, but some supporters deny anything, even from Israeli sources, which show it in a bad light. Are they to be free from investigation and criticism?

Ummm. Nah. There are plenty more Times of Israel articles on this that are substantially the same as the linked article. Enjoy…
https://www.timesofisrael.com/search/?submit=&q=Beit+Lid+base

One extreme Israeli voice has been picked out and then blown up by Al Jazeera to suggest that this was an actual/credible debate in the Knesset. It wasn't!

I suggest that the article linked to gives a very different slant to the 'story' to the article published in theTimes of Israel. Sensationalised and tabloid in style. Israel is not thinking of legitimising rape - though Hamas and its supporters certainly did - suggesting the brutal rape and killing of men women and children on October 7th was simply "an act of resistance".

Well since in this case, they are only republishing the story that the Times of Israel investigated and published, then we can be sure it’s not Hamas propaganda or antisemtic rubbish.

Al Jazeera is a Qatari funded mouthpiece for the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas too.

This. Always check source material.

I should add to previous post that it should read 'Palestinian prisoner' not 'Palestinian protestor.'

@LoremIpsumCici Yes, I knew it was horrific. Individuals who can do such a thing are really dangerous and a threat to society.

Yes,
The Palestinian detainee was raped so violently, that the object inserted in his rectum reached as far as to damage a lung. Quite literally impaled. The Israeli doctor said this was worst case of sexual abuse he had seen and he felt he had to report it. He “said he has been criticized for both whistleblowing and for treating suspected terrorists”

“Doctor Yoel Donchin confirmed a report from medical sources that the detainee had presented at the field hospital with broken ribs and signs of physical abuse on multiple bones. He also confirmed that something round had been inserted deep into the detainee’s rectum, causing a tear in the lower bowel and damage to one of the lungs that required emergency surgery.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/doctor-who-reported-abuse-of-palestinian-detainee-i-blamed-fellow-prisoners/

I think this may be true. Rape is always brutal, but I think if there is additional violence it also draws attention. There was a terrible story of a woman raped in India, which involved so much sadistic violence that it did gain attention. Yet I think many other women have also been raped there, as elsewhere. In the case of the Palestinian protestor there seems to have been extreme physical damage inflicted. However, I don't think that is what drew attention as much as the protests in support of the soldiers involved and the debate on TV as to whether it's a good thing to do.

It's interesting how the war has changed the government's stance. Earlier this year the government were calling claims of the sexual abuse of female Palestinians as “despicable and unfounded". Now members of the cabinet are saying sexual abuse is justified.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says