Israel society debates the right to rape

^https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/nine-unrwa-staff-may-have-been-involved-oct-7-attack-israel-says-un-2024-08-05/^

The U.N,'s Haq said the United Nations investigation had made findings in relation to 19 UNRWA staff members. Apart from those who may have been involved in the attack, no evidence was obtained to support allegations of one staff member's involvement, while in the other cases the evidence was insufficient to support their involvement.

"For nine people, the evidence was sufficient to conclude that they may have been involved in the seventh of October attacks," deputy spokesperson Farhan Haq told a U.N. briefing.

Haq said the details of the OIOS investigation were confidential and that since information used by Israeli authority officials to support their allegations have remained in their hands, "OIOS was not able to independently authenticate most of the information provided to it."

However when pressed on why the U.N. was acting against nine, he said: "We have sufficient information in order to take the actions that we're taking, which is to say, the termination of these nine individuals."
Asked if this meant the U.N. considered that the nine were "likely or highly likely" to have been part of the attacks, he replied: "That's a good way of describing it."

No. I am saying that Hamas and co were animals for raping Israeli women, and IDF soldiers are animals to rape Palestinians. I am saying you cannot trust any agency in Gaza to be speaking the truth because to speak out against Hamas is a death sentence.
Suggesting I support the IDF raping male prisoners is an ad hominem attack - you don't know what I think from what I said except that I do not trust Hamas. Apparently, these attacks were video'd, because Israeli sources are complaining about that rather than their soldiers behaving appallingly. That does suggest the report is true.

Please, argue against me re Hamas/IDF, but do not second guess what I think - such has no place in rational debate.

I don't UNrwa's involvement is proved, but it is staffed by Palestinians, for the most part. It took a long time for the horrors of Oct 7th to be accepted - some are still in denial.

Are you saying the Hamas are animals for raping Israeli women, but that it also gives permission for the virtuous IDF to rape Palestinians, who had it coming to them?

Sounds like you actually support IDF raping prisoners.

Has the Israeli government proved the involvement of Unrwa staff in Hamas or Islamic Jihad? I'm aware they've made allegations but wasn't aware it had been proved.

I believe everyone is aware of what happened on 7 October and that Hamas was responsible for the attack.

really? That’s are rather pathetic deflection isn’t it.

Which bit are you saying is a lie?

More on this.

https://www.channel4.com/news/abuse-allegations-absolutely-unequivocally-inexcusable-says-former-israeli-diplomat

https://www.channel4.com/news/palestinian-detainees-allege-torture-and-sexual-abuse-by-israeli-captors

The UN agency in Gaza has links with Hamas. As for the Hamas health ministry, it cannot be trusted. We do know that Hamas led an attack into Israel on October 7th and that women and children were raped and killed - several pictures, also, of hostages (women) with blood on their trousers, who had clearly been raped, several times from the amount of blood.

It's not just surprising, it terrifying.

Indeed.

I was talking with my 93 yr old father in law about recent riots and looting, he said there was no such thing during ww2. I told him that my own late father (born a few years earlier) helped with the task of guarding the family shop and the rationed goods inside during air raids

There will always be people who do not control their baser instincts. What do these people have in common? Sex? Nationality? Religion? Politics? None of these? Is the brutalisation and desperation of war an excuse?

There are still civilians held in Gaza by people who have already shown us what their moral compass is. Their home movies were as damning as the CCTV here. I doubt that even a complete condemnation from Israel will satisfy those who want to remove it from existence

@MarieDeGournay I agree that torture and rape probably happen in all wars. What surprises me is public figures and civilian protests condoning it.

Outrages carried out in conflict are always atrocious; we don't often get the amount of detail provided by the link in the OP, but the horrors described in it are no doubt being perpetrated in the many other armed conflicts going on around the world - I think the official number if 59 current armed conflicts? Sadly we don't hear much about the human suffering in the other 58, although suffering is suffering, whoever is inflicting it, or suffering it.

The opinions that 'our boys would never do such a thing' or 'well the other side deserve all they get' is not specific to Israel - British soldiers who murdered innocent civilians in Northern Ireland got away with it because, as was explained to me once by an otherwise reasonable British colleague: 'Our soldiers never kill innocent people, so anybody they killed in Northern Ireland must have been terrorists'.

Are you under the illusion that any criticism of Israel = support of Hamas? This is tired fallacy which is constantly employed by blind, fanatical supporters of Israel.

We Served on Israel's Sde Teiman Base. Here's What We Did to Gazans Detained There

Hands and feet in shackles. Eyes blindfolded. No moving. No talking. And, sometimes, violent beatings. Days upon days, weeks upon weeks pass like this at the Sde Teiman facility for Hamas terrorists and Palestinian civilians from Gaza. These interviewees know. They served there

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-16/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/we-served-on-israels-sde-teiman-base-heres-what-we-did-to-gazans-detainees/00000191-5591-d60d-a59b-ff994cb40000

Can also be read at https://archive.is/2EF3z

I'm not " hijacking it" - I'm disputing the whole premise of the thread starter - which constitutes blantant and hateful propoganda. When you say " hijacking" is this what you mean....not permitting a blalant distortion to go unquestioned?

Because as I said it has already been dealt with. Many threads are started on FWR where the OP reflects a view point that isn't shared by the majority of the posters who then reply.

Nobody then spends days dotting the thread with the OP is a distortion. Its an outrage.

It has been said. It has been evidenced.

You just look like you are hijacking the thread because that's all you post about.

You aren't recognising what others have posted.

If you read the thread and actually had the good manners to acknowledge what has been posted, every body has already said this.

Why do you keep repeating it.

What are you hoping to achieve by endlessly saying the same thing.

Why not acknowledge those who have already pointed this out.

Unless of course your intention is to bore people so much that they stop posting on the thread.

I'm not " hijacking it" - I'm disputing the whole premise of the thread starter - which constitutes blantant and hateful propoganda. When you say " hijacking" is this what you mean....not permitting a blalant distortion to go unquestioned?

Reading a long history of Israel written by someone sympathetic to the Israelis.

He says the same. The problem goes back many decades.

Why not create a more balanced debate, then...in which Hamas and its thousands of 'operatives' also think that rape of civilian men, wome, children and hostages is also legitmate?

But the thread starter is misleading in the extreme,

And already challenged much earlier.

Why not read the thread and participate in the issue, instead of attempting to hijack it.

Its so tedious this unreliable source nonsense.

I am sure Hamas is absolutely thrilled that you think they are so powerful that all round the world news outlets are passively promoting a pro Hamas message!

But just to remind you that the thread is about the fact that some is Israeli society are actively talking about it being acceptable to rape detainees.

And even at the height of Suealla Braverman's weird ideas of right wing ideology, nothing approaching this warped perception enter the public domain.

Anyone would think you dont want anyone to talk about what is currently going on in Israeli society and in the IDF.
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408welcometohell

Nobody has suggested it was made up. The Israeli government is not suggesting it was made up. The point is that this thread is a blatant act of distorted, anti Israeli campigning. Twisting the wording of the thread starter to suggest something that is false - namely that Israel has been having debates as to whether or not to legitimise rape.

I'm not playing this game that you have now created. I'm responding to the thread title.

Of course rape is to be condemned. Why would you suggest I'd think otherwise?

The thread starter was worded to suggest that Israeli society is having debates as to whether to de-criminalise rape. That is blatantly and outrageously false.
If we are going to talk about rape in war more generally.....then the thread should have been worded that way.

Additionally, the rapes and other atrocities of October 7th, though, were not on combatants or detainess but on civilian men, women and children.

Nobody is denying that a detainee was raped ( including there being no denial by the Israeli government). But the thread starter is misleading in the extreme, and the sources you have quoted all clearly biased propoganda channels for Hamas.

You must be aware, however, that there are many on the Pro Hamas side of the fence who still wilfully deny the rapes and atrocities carried out on October 7th.