Melbourne - women's rights rally disrupted by trans rights activists

Guilty as charged, M'lady.

You say that, but I swear I've seen you doing that.

Sometimes relying on both in the same post.

Sometimes even being logical while you're at it.

It's like the recent posts that accused us of 'using logic' as though that was an eccentric and sneaky thing to do

I particularly enjoy that line of argument. Sometimes there are even accusations of relying on facts, and science.

I've heard claims from teacher friends about young people communicating via text message in preference either to face-to-face contact or speaking on the phone. If some people avoid normal human contact themselves, maybe they want to prevent the rest of us doing so, to ensure we don't gain an unfair advantage. And describing the sort of human contact that has been there since humans existed as 'old fashioned' might be a desperate attempt to enforce that (they don't know how little real-world humanity cares about fashion).

It's like the recent posts that accused us of 'using logic' as though that was an eccentric and sneaky thing to do, again suggesting that there is a cohort of people who only communicate in tiny on-line messages and can't cope normal conversation.

This has always been old fashioned people stuck in the past versus new ideas, with the odd exception.

Oh, so women's rights to:

• speak in public
• speak in public without harassment, or threatened and actual violence
• maintain boundaries because they want to
• maintain boundaries for safety, dignity, and privacy
• assert the primacy of the fundamental condition of being female
• assert women's right to meet as women

All these things are what feminists for several hundred years have fought for. Would you say the right to gather for political meetings is "old-fashioned" ? Tell that to Mick Lynch or the TUC.

FFS.

It is no surprise.

Remember the male protestor on the righteous side of history who slammed cymbals together in front of a police horse.

And remember the posters who dismissed this behaviour. It really was ‘nothing to see’ time.

This is just par for the course. These protestors don’t even respect animals.

Perhaps he identifies it as democracy.

Regular posters here are more charitable than me. I read the regurgitated shite from the usual suspects, and I just think, you are scum. Dishonest, dissembling scum.

Good point Gail.

And considering that Michelle is all too familiar with how vulnerable the Māori women are to some of the highest male violence rates in the world, I am sure that she had in no illusions about the source of violence and intimidation being shown by protestors on the day.

And I am sure that Mishy knew that when posting that there were women from a diverse cultural background when Mishy dismissed their needs the way Mishy did. It is strange though, that Mishy’s digs never quite show what Mishy thinks it does. But it does highlight the rampant misogyny of the movement that Mishy supports.

Yeah, but obviously people with life experience know NOTHING, we need the most ignorant possible youngsters to reinvent the wheel.

Amazing how the demographics of the "Women will Speak" group seem to hit the usual element.

This has always been old fashioned people stuck in the past versus new ideas, with the odd exception.

Nice. Tad racist to describe the indigenous woman who organised this event as such, but then nothing surprises me with Gender Ideologists any more.

Apparently, democracy to some means that if you can drown out people's voices, you gave them every opportunity to remain silent, to speak as you wish them to speak, and they didn't, so you had to make sure no one else could hear them. It also means that you never have to address what they have said in a civil debate.

But then you remember, these are the people that actively dismiss or cannot ever recognise violence against female people if it is female people they disagree with. Then you realise that to them democracy only ever means them getting their agenda complied with.

Because then you remember that to them words such as 'woman', 'girl', 'tolerant', 'kind' and 'inclusive' now also mean the exact opposite of what the words were intended to mean, and what the majority of those using the words mean. So, then you realise that 'democracy' is just another on that list.

I think your definition of Democracy needs a little work if you think that's what happen in Melbourne. 🤔

And how wonderfully dismissive you are of the reason that it was a very small group of women, and women who were incredibly brave to even turn up.

Let's remind you, shall we?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4740148-let-women-speak-australia-nz-tour?page=1

In Melbourne, last year, a large group of women turned up of all ages. Including detransitioners and young women. These women were subject to being overwhelmed by mostly male protestors, seeking to drown out their words and to intimidate them. Then some of those women received life changing sanctions and censure for turning up by no less than the Victorian state opposition leader, who went on to defame the women and had to be apologise.

However, the abuse and intimidation has continued to this day. Did you see that someone was arrested for violence on the day? Why would any young woman put herself through the trauma of attending when faced with this?

How fucking dismissive are you Mishy of male violence against women? Oh. that's right. ...

So, no. Any woman who has a career to lose, or who is simply terrified by the violence and intimidation tactics of still mostly male protestors are not going to attend.

But nice for all reading along though to see that you dismiss that male violence still.

Well done.

Amazing how the demographics of the "Women will Speak" group seem to hit the usual element.

This has always been old fashioned people stuck in the past versus new ideas, with the odd exception.

Good on them for speaking their truth, and the counter protestors for calling them out on it. Democracy at work.

I’m really pleased Australian women are doing a ‘women speaking’ event as it just shows what you attract when you try to speak, when you try to have opinions. If, as an ordinary woman, you can’t speak freely without being threatened- and thankfully the police presence seems to have been adequate- then it exposes the misogyny that many many not be aware of.

The first article quotes a TRA banner as ““fascist graves are gender neutral toilets””. Perhaps it will catch on.

The women’s banners quoted, about no men in women’s sport, that men can’t become women and that children should not be medicalised, will be easier for the general public to understand.

I had to look up ‘carceral feminist’ and found this neat description
It's another form of dick-centring pseudo feminism. It's something that identifies the person who says it as a complete tosser.
at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3662172-Carceral-Feminism-is-this-a-thing-now
That led me to this magnificent article
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/10/05/a-thank-you-note-to-carceralsex-negative-feminists/

Well quite @DeanElderberry The critique of carceral state policies has been part of the US Civil Rights movement since, probably, the 1950s.

And in Australia & NZ, there are real and very painful issues around the intersection (or collision) of indigenous rights and women's rights. For example, what was called the Aboriginal Legal Service in NSW, Australia (states have different organisations in Australia) had a policy of not prosecuting indigenous accused, even in the case of domestic violence cases. It seems very difficult to white feminists, but I understand that the burden of deracination of indigenous people in a settler-colony (invaded) like Australia might weigh more than violence against women - although that is a horrible sentence to write. But the scandal of Aboriginal deaths in custody is still ongoing in Australia, for example.

I think it's this dilemma that Kimberlé Crenshaw was thinking through in her essay on intersectionality back in 1991.

I saw the arrest footage in this very long livestream by a 'citizen journalist'.
I agree it sounded like a woman
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=006VIF9ov9A

The person who posted the clip (on the side of women’s rights, & I think she took the footage too) identified the shrieking-thrashing individual as female.

Certainly it would be unusual for a male individual to produce that kind of sound when roaring.

@TheywontletmehavethenameIwant

Claire Chandler.

Great to see MSM reporting properly on this topic.

I think the days when Chris was worried about looking silly are long gone.