Taiwan Tries to Silence Fair Play For Women

Except it was disclosed by the now banned IBA that the dodgy lab they used did not test testosterone levels.

In addition, shitty labs don’t need an incentive to have shitty tests with bad results. They can just be shitty at their job.

These two boxers have passed every other accredited gender test btw, it’s not like they have repeatedly failed test after test from all labs.

I am not “stripping women of their right to their own sporting contests” I am questioning the wierd belief that one shitty test commissioned by a banned organisation that has been overturned by the IOC who investigated it and called it flawed is being given credence over all the other tests that these boxers psssed.

It’s like you take five pregancy tests and only one says negative and then you go round thinking you aren’t pregnant because of one shitty test that obviously didn’t work the way it was supposed to. It’s ridiculous and all the vitriol aimed at these women is harmful and is only perpetuating stereotypes of femininity what with all the “oooh I think I see an Adam’s Apple” and comments about how manly these women look.

So the evidence was not discredited, then.

How can you "overturn" a test? Without repeating the test to see if you get different results?

It only libel if it is not true. All they have to do is take a cheek swab test. They haven't and they won't and that tells me all I need to know.
The IOC doesn't believe in sex testing preferring to rely on the F marker in a passport. You are in clown world.

There are also implications to allowing another government to silence free speech in the UK by trying to intimidate in this way.

Free speech doesn’t protect anyone from libel or cyberbullying over international borders.

The IBA is banned btw, their whole organisation is discredited.
”Olympics organizers said Sunday that arbitrary testing imposed on boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting that led to a storm of vitriol misidentifying the women as transgender or men was “so flawed that it’s impossible to engage with it.”
International Olympic Committee spokesman Mark Adams again vigorously defended Khelif of Algeria and Lin of Taiwan, hammering the sport’s now-banned governing body, the International Boxing Association, that claimed the fighters failed unspecified eligibility tests for women’s competition.”
https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-lin-yuting-boxing-13e9529195585404c7b03c96f97dd634

@RedToothBrush
”What we know to be true beyond reasonable doubt - Lin Yu-ting was banned due to failing a test. There wasn't an attempt to challenge this.”

This is not true though. 😅
The IBA disqualified her for failing a test, which the IOC then overturned calling the test “fundamentally flawed” allowing her to compete.

But why oh why are we even arguing the toss?
We know and he knows. We shouldnt even give it creedence, beyond
a simple, NO, its not true.
Extraordinary claims are for the person making them to prove, not us.
And that applies to the whole TRA movement as well.

Not one of them has proved any of their claims, and yet despite that they hold society by the throat, and the world lets them.

The poster says that 'Oh, except ‘she’ didn’t. I think we can all guess why.'

Which is why ‘she’ sued the IBA and the two approved labs that said she failed the sex test, right? Oh, except ‘she’ didn’t. I think we can all guess why.

The main thrust of FPFW is sport. Nic Williams is the one who got Sharron Davis on board, and has done amazing work, quietly beavering away working on all the sports authorities.

It's interesting how the Taiwanese government know that, though.

Wow it is like you live in a totally different reality.

Here in the real world;

There are only two relevant factors they would be testing, testosterone levels and genetic make up, there probably are other things to test but these two are easy to test and will provide you with guaranteed proof of someone's sex.

As far as I know the completely independent (what evidence do you have these two labs had some kind of incentive to find an Algerian and a Taiwanese boxer were in the wrong sex category?) laboratories tested the boxers genetics, and found they were both men and they were disqualified.

No one would let them box women, even in training, as they were injuring women, as one would expect when a guy punches a woman except the (strongly rumored to be corrupt) international Olympics committee, who said it was up to individual countries to decide who they wanted to compete (no issue there right?)

Since seizing the top prize, women who had fought them name them as men and even their trainers admit they are not women.

Why are you so invested in stripping women of the right to their own sporting competitions? genuine question. Is it just in Sport that you feel women must be kept from having a level playing field or do you think in other areas too women should be forced to accept men they dont want?

Your point about the Adam's apple got me curious so I googled imaged both boxers and trachea shave images.
They both look like they have had the operation.
If you look at images of trachea shave the results look like the muscle looking part is still there but the point part of the Addams apple has been removed. Both boxers look like that. They have the big muscle part but not the pointy part of a male neck.

Well this is chilling.

@Mumofteenandtween sorry, completely misunderstood your post and read it the other way around. Clearly need more coffee!

No. That they are men (XY chromosomes!) with a genetic mutation that may make people erroneously think that they are female when they are born.

I am human with a genetic mutation that (if we used teeth counting as a way of defining human vs Zogite) may erroneously make people think that I am a Zogite.

Not quite sure what point you are making here - that a genetic mutation doesn’t make them male? ‘Cos you’d be wrong. Especially as male and females are a distinct biological categories whereas Zogites are make-believe… not unlike the belief that men (with DSDs or ‘feelz’) can be women.

We'll see. But whatever he thinks about the trans issue, he really should be telling the Taiwanese to back off.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · Yesterday 23:43

IBA could have simply disclosed their decision to disqualify.

They did, they stated that they had failed on grounds of "gender" eligibility. The tests have been leaked and experts have seen them and explained that the two men were found to have male chromosomes.

And IOC has overturned the IBA decision as their review found the test to be fundamentally flawed.

They have no scientific grounds to have ignored (not overturned, they don't have that capability) the tests. They ignored them and allowed two males to fight women, on ideological grounds, no science was involved.

Both labs were approved by the IOC and endorsed by the ISO.

I can't see David "men can grow cervices (cervixes? Cervixen?)" Lammy doing his job over this one. I also can't imagine it leading to an actual court case - but would definitely do some gardening if it did and would love to see the verdict.

Terrible typo!!! Humans have 4 incisors at the top and 4 at the bottom. Only Zogites (and me!) have 3 at the bottom.

Here’s the thing - they were disqualified by the IBA for failing “gender eligibility tests” when they were both on course for a medal in the world championships last year. They either did not appeal or dropped the appeal.

The argument against the IBA is that it is dodgy in some unexplained way. (Maybe Russian?)

Ok - so I am me and I have trained for years as a boxer and suddenly - when Inam on course for a world championship medal sudden some corrupt body says that I am not a woman. Would I say “oh ok then” and slink away with my career in tatters or would I do whatever it takes to prove that I am one. Hmmm - I’d be there calling press conferences and offering swabs to any journalist who wants to take one in order to prove that I was a woman.

The fact that they didn’t - to me - proves that they knew they couldn’t win if the facts were established.

I suspect that these boxers do have some kind of DSD and they may have initially been believed to be female at birth. But, in fact, this is just a genetic mutation that some men have.

I have a genetic mutation. I only have 3 incisors at the bottom of my mouth. My brother only has 2 at the top of his. Humans have 4 at the top and 3 at the bottom. I happen to know that aliens from the planet Zog only have 2 or 3. But I am not an alien from the planet Zog. If you were deciding who is human and who is Zogite from the number of teeth they have then you may - erroneously - think that I am a Zogite (which would be seriously cool - would I get my own spaceship?!?!) But I am not. I am just a boring old human with a genetic mutation that means that I am missing a bit.

Why is IK getting more coverage than LY-T?

IK was up first, so got the initial coverage and the Italian AC made a public point of it which didn't happen to LY-T which helped to 'make it a story'. Then, partly as a result of that IK and team have Streisanded much harder than LY-T. This has also been amplified by Algerians and Algerian supporters. Culturally it's not the done thing in Taiwan to make a fuss in the same way Algeria and Algerian supporters have, which will also play into the noise around this.

I don't think it's racism. I think the racism card is an anti-west trope being thrown around which is very Algerian in nature anyway (I have a good friend married to an Algerian and it's very much part of his attitude and we've had lengthy conversations about it). It's got a lot to do with getting news from alternative sources to British ones. It's definitely something being pushed by someone with a particular agenda to try and drive a wedge and gather support for Khelif by creating a 'with us or against us' propaganda technique for use over a wide range of subjects not just this.

Yes, I think it’s because we understand from the IBA that the two boxers were subjected to exactly the same tests and for the same reasons, so it is reasonable to rely on commentary and interviews about IK and infer they apply to LY-T? I’m bemused also as to why one is getting more coverage, but I think it may be because IK was aggressive, posturing, face pulling, army saluting in the ring exemplifying hyper-masculinised behaviours whereas LY-T was rather lower key and poker faced?

The curled tongue into the lower lip/finger wagging thing that Ik does is an utterly repellent gesture in a male, let alone a ‘woman’ - IK has done themselves no favours…And I say that as someone who has several female friends who are ex-navy, one of whom was a sniper in NI and has body-guarded for Saudi royalty - the women - so I’m not comparing to the performative ‘femininity’ of perfume ads whose products I would avoid on principle now.

It’ll be interesting to see his response.
Will Labour (through Lammy) allow a foreign nation to try and influence UK freedom of speech because they don’t like the people being silenced? That would be a slippery slope.

Otherwise Lammy will have to defend FPFW when we know he believes GC women are beneath contempt.