Imane Khelif

And IMO... the reason they haven't produced XX results out of a hat is because they want to continue the precedent set by Semenya that XY athletes can be 'women' for sports purposes. Because they are more likely to win. YMMV.

"In May 2022, during the IBA women’s world championship in Istanbul, Lin and Khelif underwent chromosome tests, which were processed locally at a lab.
IBA minutes from March 25, 2023, the day before that tournament closed, indicate the results of the 2022 worlds tests “were received only upon the conclusion of the event, hence the athletes were not disqualified back then.”
Again, the next world championships would be in March 2023 in New Delhi. Why were both athletes allowed to take part?
“Another test was not possible to conduct when the athletes were outside IBA control until they arrived to New Delhi,” the minutes read.
In New Delhi, another test for each, “to reconfirm the findings of the initial test, which it did,” according to the June 2023 letter the IBA sent to the IOC.
The New Delhi lab reports for both Khelif and Lin say the same thing:
Result Summary: “Abnormal”
Interpretation: “Chromosomal analysis reveals Male karyotype.”
A karyotype means an individual’s complete set of chromosomes. Females have XX chromosomes, males XY.
The lab results for each athlete depict the XY chromosomes photographically.
The IOC asserts both athletes were DQ’d without due process.
The IBA minutes do say, as the IOC has said, that the decision to disqualify was made by the IBA secretary general at the time and that the board was asked to ratify that move.
At the same time, the minutes also make clear that – in the case of Khelif – the acting Algerian ambassador was present at that March 25, 2023, meeting and “invited to present the Algerian position and requested a second opinion on the issue.”
A majority of the board voted to approve the disqualifications, with one abstention and one no, Jose Laureano of Puerto Rico. Laureano then suggested that the IBA establish a “clear procedure on gender testing.” The new rules were in place by May.
The IBA said in a statement that Lin did not appeal the IBA disqualification to the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport, “thus rendering the decision legally binding.”
Khelif, the IBA said, initially lodged an appeal with CAS but dropped the case, “also making the IBA decision legally binding.”

IBA letter to IOC, June 2023: Boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes' | 3 Wire Sports

I doubt anyone is taking the IBA's word "as god," it's just that, if there were results with XX, contrary to what the IBA says they have, one wonders where they are.

No female athletes have to reduce their testosterone to compete in female sports.

Remember: testicles don't make one less of a 'woman'!
'Women' can suffer from cryptorchidism and/or male-level testosterone, it's a well known (and possibly IOC approved) 'fact'.

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/3/0d4ucn50bmvbndhhqjohaneccoqueq

Not really.

I am just pointing out that you can as easily discredit one as you can the others.

There are plenty of reasons to doubt the IBA process and results, as I am sure you will already be aware, they have been discussed multiple times in the media.

If you want to take their word as god, why on earth would you surprised if others choose not to, and believe someone else?

Good call.

So...he didn't know what karyotype IK had, when he said that IK was a woman despite it?
Or he was saying that despite having XX karyotype, IK was a woman?

The boxers were tested twice. The results of the tests was leaked. XY.
The endocrinologist, whose field of expertise is hormones, advised about lowering serum testosterone to the female range. Only the testes can produce enough testosterone to put a person in the male range.

If it helps, the mention of an issue with the chromosome is in the IBA's letter to the IOC, published online and on multiple threads.

See the link within this official webpage dated 5th June 2023 to 'official correspondence to the IOC':

www.iba.sport/news/iba-clarifies-the-facts-the-letter-to-the-ioc-regarding-two-ineligible-boxers-was-sent-and-acknowledged/

Aahhh, but they are the only one that Suggestions cares about. They are renowned after all and must have some higher level gnostic knowledge about the mysteries of 'woman essence'.

So where are we now?

We have two tests from different independent labs in different countries producing results saying that these athletes have XY chromosomes as per Dr. Ioannis Filippatos (Surgeon, Sport Medicine Doctor, and Ob/Gyn Specialist). Confirmed by IBA, WBO and EBC.

We have the French endocrinologist saying “ despite of her karyotype and her testosterone levels. He said : “There is a problem with her hormones, and with her chromosomes, but she's a woman.”

And then we have an Algeria doctor who monitored the testosterone suppression (Sorry that I wrongly missed out this doctor too). “We then worked with an Algeria-based doctor to control and regulate Imane's testosterone levels, which are currently in the female range.”

I think it remarkable that anyone is relying on the word ‘woman’ when we have two specialists referring to karotypes. And a specialist and a doctor referring to testosterone levels that are not in the range for female people without suppression.

The "renowned endocrinologist" is not the only person who has spoken on the matter.

Dunno.

What are the names of the IBA testers?

You have to take motivations into account. This is not an occasion for total honesty; it's one for fudging and plausible deniability. For example, if a team of people with money hanging in the balance wanted to run a male athlete against female athletes because of the stronger likelihood of a win.

Well then everyone is drawing an incorrect conclusion then.

You do not have the evidence from the renowned endocrinologist of the presence of XY Chromosomes.

Has it even been revealed who this "renowned endocrinologist" even IS?

Jesus Christ, of course a woman who has had a mastectomy is still a woman.

Are you suggesting otherwise?

Are you honestly not seeing that the word "despite" here means that this person has MALE - NOT FEMALE chromosomes? That's clear to everyone apart from you apparently.

All the semantics about the use of 'despite' is an irrelevant distraction.

But nowhere has it been reported that the renowned endocrinologist said there were XY chromosomes 🤷‍♂️

I wouldn't have a problem with that statement because it's true.

Whereas you can't be a woman if you have an XY karyotype and produce high levels of testosterone, in the male range.

But that's silly.

You could easily say 'Despite having mastectomies for both breasts and having never had a baby, she is still a woman'

You wouldn't have a problem with that would you?

Surely you mean:

Despite the grass being dry it is wet
It is wet.

Despite of her karyotype and testosterone levels, Imane is a woman.
Imane is a woman.

Unmooring the word "woman" from femaleness is indeed silly. I'm glad you are starting to see that at last.

You have left out the key information in your response, though.

A correct rendering would be:

"Despite Khelif's male karyotype and male testosterone levels, Khelif is a woman"

This must be so, otherwise there would be no need to use "despite", and one would just say Khelif has the karyotype and testosterone of a woman.

Now that we've established this, what criteria, other than genetic makeup and testosterone, is the endocrinologist using to define "woman"? Because it can't be sex and must therefore be socio-cultural.