Violent attacks against women on trains rise by more than 50%

IwantToRetire · 2024-08-14T16:07:06+00:00

^The number of violent attacks against women and girls on Britain’s railways has increased by more than 50 per cent over the past two years, according to official figures.^ ^Violent crimes have risen from 7,561 in 2021 to 11,357 last year, while the number of sexual offences has risen by 10 per cent from 2,235 to 2,475 over the same period. The number of cases of sexual harassment reported over the same period has doubled, to 1,908.^ ^A survey commissioned by British Transport Police found that over a third of women have been subjected to sexual harassment or sexual offences while commuting by train or tube.^ ^The survey found that 51 per cent of those who have been victims of sexual offending said that other passengers had tried to help them. Crime data shows that most sexual offences take place during the evening rush hour period, between 5pm and 7pm, on busy train carriages.^ continues at [[https://www.thetimes.com/article/violent-attacks-women-girls-public-transport-rise-by-50-percent-bs8dq38hr https://www.thetimes.com/article/violent-attacks-women-girls-public-transport-rise-by-50-percent-bs8dq38hr]] Can also be read at [[https://archive.is/jLH9r https://archive.is/jLH9r]]

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 16/08/2024 17:34

Asking silly questions like, weren't we at school together, or something,

Although on reflection, I might have to say "are you the daughter of Jane Smith? You look just like her when we were at school together"

OP posts:

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2024 17:20

Irridescantshimmmer · 15/08/2024 02:50

I remember an incident on a tube train many years ago, where I heard a young lady yell and run up the train, a tall, well built male sat near her but would not take his eyes off her, she was very young, probably a teen dressed casual, long hair and no makeup.

I was watching them both, he was having fake conversations with the police on his phone speaking none stop she was absolutely petrified, fortunately she was with a young man so she was not alone. When this creep stood up and made a bee line for her, my instincts just kicked in and I spun round, and blocked him so she was in front and he was behind me....... She mouthed the words 'thank you' to me.

Predatory behaviour of this creep just wound me up so much I just had to do something, I could not ignore it, I am quite petite just under 5 foot so short stature and the idiot toweted over me (6 foot) but I had no fear.

I suspect he may have had a disorder of some kind, it was impossibke for me to tell, he just went into a big mood stormed off down the tube and sat down with a face like a slapped arse.

I'm like ' I don't believe that just happened'

Well dont you.

I am not sure I would have done that.

But also, suggested in other circumstance, but why not on a train, if you think a woman is being intimidated, stared at or whatever, start of conversation with them.

Asking silly questions like, weren't we at school together, or something,

I am not sure if it helps but if she feels reassured that someone is aware of her, and the man knows that someone is in contact with her, could put him off.

But just ridiculous that in the 21st century women should have to play these games because men dont know how to behave.

OP posts:

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2024 17:16

I would be more interested in figure from 2019

As said upthread and in the article, this is about a new project to specifically look at this issue, so there aren't the figures collated in the same way.

And has been suggested that the increase is because there is now an app to do it.

Not that I am suggesting that all women will have or want an app, but may explain that for some it makes it easier to support.

OP posts:

Grammarnut · 15/08/2024 17:12

Ramblingnamechanger · 15/08/2024 13:10

IWFH most of the article talks about trains in the 1880s! While we might hope that things were different now , life has changed for the worse for women travelling. In whose interest is it for men and women to be crushed up together in overcrowded carriages? Agree that there will be some men trying to access but a little female solidarity, as shown in India , would deal with them. Ok maybe one third women only , one third mixed and on third men only. Let’s see which one women will choose these days.

I travelled alone late at night from the West End out to Ealing in the late 60s, on the Picadilly and the Central line (our school encouraged theatre visits and got us concession tickets). Never accosted, never felt under threat, even when alone in a carriage. Was I just lucky? NB my best friend did the same journey, but getting out at Acton, and also never had any problems. I don't mean we ignored things, I mean things did not happen.

Mind, one thing I did notice in the 60s - relevant to another thread on MN - was that Asian men tended to target young white girls.

OldMutantDecrepitTurtle · 15/08/2024 13:43

lcakethereforeIam · 15/08/2024 11:26

I think one of the reasons train designs moved to open carriages was because of sexual assaults. I remember some compartments didn't even have corridors, so women and girls had no safe way of escape once the train was moving.

I wish that this national emergency of misogynistic violence could be dealt with as enthusiastically as the recent public disorder.

Yes, it's amazing how quickly cases make it through to court and how room can be found in the prisons when the crimes are deemed serious enough.

Ramblingnamechanger · 15/08/2024 13:10

IWFH most of the article talks about trains in the 1880s! While we might hope that things were different now , life has changed for the worse for women travelling. In whose interest is it for men and women to be crushed up together in overcrowded carriages? Agree that there will be some men trying to access but a little female solidarity, as shown in India , would deal with them. Ok maybe one third women only , one third mixed and on third men only. Let’s see which one women will choose these days.

Grammarnut · 15/08/2024 12:18

Hatfullofwillow · 14/08/2024 17:46

If we're serious as a society about reducing violence against women (and in general) we need long term strategies for making society more equal, with particular focus on gender inequality.

blogs.worldbank.org/en/dev4peace/can-gender-equality-prevent-violent-conflict

Sex equality. Gender is a social construct.

lcakethereforeIam · 15/08/2024 11:26

I think one of the reasons train designs moved to open carriages was because of sexual assaults. I remember some compartments didn't even have corridors, so women and girls had no safe way of escape once the train was moving.

I wish that this national emergency of misogynistic violence could be dealt with as enthusiastically as the recent public disorder.

Trox · 15/08/2024 10:52

I was on the tube this week when a big man dressed in a flowery skirt and cardigan walked very deliberately up the length of the half-empty carriage, stopped at the end door to adjust his balls through his skirt, then, at the next station, got out, got into the next carriage and started walking down that one. He probably went through the whole train. I got the feeling, from the way he looked down the carriage as he adjusted himself, that he was hoping for a challenge, but everyone stared at the floor awkwardly.

Hatfullofwillow · 15/08/2024 10:44

I wonder if clearer duty to rescue & good samaritan laws would help? I've no idea of the UK's stance on either, which doesn't seem right.

ahjeez · 15/08/2024 10:20

This sadly doesn't surprise me. I feel a lot less safe on trains since covid, there is a lot more horrible behaviour. I agree though that this is probably coupled with women and girls being more inclined to report incidents.

Hoardasurass · 15/08/2024 10:01

Ramblingnamechanger · 15/08/2024 08:10

Bring in women only carriages . At least half the train. Would improve things for most women.

Hardly as you know it won't be women's only it'll be women and any men who claims to have womanly feelings so mixed sex still but the decent blokes won't be there

IWFH · 15/08/2024 08:46

Ramblingnamechanger · 15/08/2024 08:10

Bring in women only carriages . At least half the train. Would improve things for most women.

https://www.historytoday.com/sending-females-rail-history-women-only-carriages
An old (2015) but interesting article with suggestions about why this hasn't worked well in the past.

'Sending females by rail': the history of women-only carriages | History Today

https://www.historytoday.com/sending-females-rail-history-women-only-carriages

Ramblingnamechanger · 15/08/2024 08:10

Bring in women only carriages . At least half the train. Would improve things for most women.

Guavafish1 · 15/08/2024 03:16

2021 was still pandemic times and people were using the trains less frequently.

I would be more interested in figure from 2019

Irridescantshimmmer · 15/08/2024 02:50

I remember an incident on a tube train many years ago, where I heard a young lady yell and run up the train, a tall, well built male sat near her but would not take his eyes off her, she was very young, probably a teen dressed casual, long hair and no makeup.

I was watching them both, he was having fake conversations with the police on his phone speaking none stop she was absolutely petrified, fortunately she was with a young man so she was not alone. When this creep stood up and made a bee line for her, my instincts just kicked in and I spun round, and blocked him so she was in front and he was behind me....... She mouthed the words 'thank you' to me.

Predatory behaviour of this creep just wound me up so much I just had to do something, I could not ignore it, I am quite petite just under 5 foot so short stature and the idiot toweted over me (6 foot) but I had no fear.

I suspect he may have had a disorder of some kind, it was impossibke for me to tell, he just went into a big mood stormed off down the tube and sat down with a face like a slapped arse.

I'm like ' I don't believe that just happened'

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 15/08/2024 01:03

IWFH · 14/08/2024 22:39

Not wishing to underplay the numbers of attacks or the impact on those who have been attacked BUT
at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, in 2021 there were far fewer journeys due to Covid lockdowns. The two years are not remotely comparable to show a trend of an increasing number of attacks. Shoddy reporting.

Edited

Its not "shoddy" reporting. It is about a new attempt by Transpot Police to get more women to report violence against them on trains.

As it is a new project it only has 2 years figures.

The article is reporting what the new project is saying.

And had figures from earlier been collected it could just as likely show that there was a decrease during Covid.

But quite honestly, just focusing on is it a real increase or not, rather than the substance, ie women being attacked seems rather disrespectful of the women who have been attacked, and been brave enough to come forward.

OP posts:

lazzapazza · 15/08/2024 00:09

Surely all crimes have gone up from 2021 to today. 2021 was towards the end of covid and still had lockdowns and many people staying inside more.

How about compare 2019 with 2023?

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 15/08/2024 00:00

Ahh bloody hell *IWFH *thank you for the timeline highlight!

Hoardasurass · 14/08/2024 23:18

IWFH · 14/08/2024 22:39

Not wishing to underplay the numbers of attacks or the impact on those who have been attacked BUT
at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, in 2021 there were far fewer journeys due to Covid lockdowns. The two years are not remotely comparable to show a trend of an increasing number of attacks. Shoddy reporting.

Edited

Shit I didn't even think about that 🤦‍♀️

IWFH · 14/08/2024 22:39

Not wishing to underplay the numbers of attacks or the impact on those who have been attacked BUT
at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, in 2021 there were far fewer journeys due to Covid lockdowns. The two years are not remotely comparable to show a trend of an increasing number of attacks. Shoddy reporting.

Original poster

IwantToRetire · 14/08/2024 22:28

It's diminishing??? I (clearly) cant articulate what's bothering me!

I think that why they are asking about this is that it is also what is so disturbing for women. Knowing that others would just stand by. Even if you were being raped people would just stand by.

But not saying everyone should be a street hero.

I suspect the the 51% that helped didn't physically intervene but tried to contact the guard (oh they dont have them any more do they?) or the police.

Maybe the next focus is share info on how to intervene. Some non violent intervention.

I wonder if the reaction of other passengerst would be the same if it was a young person or child.

I was on a train once when a young an went totally beserk. A threat to himself and others.

At the next station stop everyone in the carriage ran off the train. But one woman stayed with the young man just quietly talking to him. I think he was more surprised that anything.

OP posts:

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 14/08/2024 20:26

Hoardasurass · 14/08/2024 18:44

I very much doubt that it's just or even largely due to better reporting. As for the 51% to me it says that 49% of the time noone cared what was happening and looked away and the rest of the time someone atleast said something but it probably didn't help much

Show quote history

yep, it's a massive increase over just two years ☹️

I agree the "half the time no one tried to stop a sexual assault" is not at all encouraging- I wondered why they published (or requested I suppose) the data. It just feels odd to me but I can't put my finger on why - I mean the idea that a perpetrator feels comfortable to act in full public view is obviously extra grim anyway but it feels a bit "did anyone try to help you? well there you are that's ok then"

It's diminishing??? I (clearly) cant articulate what's bothering me!

InflagranteDelicto · 14/08/2024 20:13

My DDs' experience was from football fans, before noon so on their way to the match at Wembley. As a group they were vile to two teenage girls and that was as the train drew into the platform. The DC decided to give it a miss and get the next one. Their older brother was with them and he felt utterly powerless to protect them except to say let's wait.

Sadly I can well believe this report

Hoardasurass · 14/08/2024 18:44

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 14/08/2024 18:25

That's a huge increase I do hope it is due to the improved reporting system.

this struck me as odd to include "The survey found that 51 per cent of those who have been victims of sexual offending said that other passengers had tried to help them."
What are we intended to take from that?

I very much doubt that it's just or even largely due to better reporting. As for the 51% to me it says that 49% of the time noone cared what was happening and looked away and the rest of the time someone atleast said something but it probably didn't help much