Olympic Boxer names J K Rowling in lawsuit for cyberbullying

Thanks so much, Helleofabore.

The laddy doth protest too much, methinks.

Inspired by @Dumptytree saying that it was hard to find sources due to algorithms etc, I have started a resource thread to give as many links possible for anyone trying to get their heads around the information about male people in female sports categories.

(ONLY FOR POSTING RESOURCE MATERIAL NOT FOR DISCUSSION).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

There is a lot of original source material here that will help to shine a light on the impacts of testosterone on male bodies and why it is important to exclude them from female sports AND some information on how we got to this position in the Olympics.

Thanks for the replies. I did think it was odd. If they go after JK perhaps our French mumsnetters can report every social media comment they find offensive, from other international people, to their police as they are so dedicated to this kind of investigation. Andrew Tate complaints might be a good start....

But think of the glory you would gain! If you had a male ego to bolster it might be worth considering.
My sport is an East Asian martial art, I spar with men, but I know that even those far less skillful than I could beat me to a pulp if they wanted, I train with them to learn and improve and I would absolutely make a hell of a fuss if one of them acted in an unfair or dangerous manner. And I know my sifu would back me on that as he wants to encourage more female martial artists into the sport. And TBF the men I train with have never shown anything but respect. So it can be done, IK however chose not to respect women.

It depends on their legislation. Scotgov's online harms act gives them jurisdiction over anyone, anywhere on the planet, so France may have a similar law? Whether the courts can actually do it in practice is another question. There must be an X/Twitter.france, so that might cover Elon Musk even though he is tweeting (presumably) from America, but JKR is an individual, not a corporation.

But I await further details with interest. Going by Sonya Douglas's tweet above, it would seem that this action is a bit like SLAPP. So maybe the point of it is basically so IK and his supporters can say that it's sub judice, can't talk etc and to cast doubt on the veracity of Reduxx etc because their reports are the subject of a "criminal investigation".

Didn’t this come up with the Scottish hate crime legislation that laws made in Scotland potentially would extend outside of Scotland. I think it’s maybe a grey area and possibly hasn’t been tested yet in the courts.

What a whiny man. Good luck JK Rowling.

Please can I ask a random question? How can French police make a decision on whether to prosecute/investigate internet comments that weren't made in their country.
Surely if I reported (insert any hate crime criteria) comments made to me from a person in another country the UK police wouldn't charge them? Or I am clearly missing something.

@mansplainingsincethe90s igt's not cruelty to use facts.

Calling males 'she' muddies the waters on who should be in the category 'woman'.

They benefit from this confusion.

Women lose out.

Women are being tone policed while attempting to fight for their rights, and this isn't reasonable or fair.

Right, yes I agree. But I was responding to Fariha31, who speculated whether he had a DSD at all.

In which case I wondered how he would get F on his passport.

Given his Passport, I suspect he does have a DSD

That tracks.

Sonya Douglas (connected to Sex Matters) has posted this about the case

Khelif has filed a criminal complaint. You don’t normally need money to file a criminal complaint - it will be up to French prosecutors to decide whether to prosecute.

How do you know what this boxer doesn't have a penis? Can you share a link that has convinced you of this?

@Dumptytree
Happy to help. I admit I was in two minds as to whether to treat your post as a "good faith" comment, because we have had some time-wasters on here, but I'm glad I did.

FFS there's no bigger drama queen than a man who claims to be a woman. 🙄

Most details have emerged publicly now, since the lab reports from these tests were leaked to sports journalist Alan Abrahamson. He's written about them in a few articles, this is the most recent: https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/9/algerias-imane-khelif-wins-gold-will-this-worldwide-controversy-spark-constructive-change

The New Delhi test results for each say “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype” – with a depiction of XY chromosomes.

An earlier article has more detail: https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su3z20xxnfzgtao0gy

3 Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”

For both Khelif and Lin, the New Delhi test – from, as IBA disclosed Monday, the independent Dr Lal PathLabs – consists of three pages. In part:

The first page provides, along with basic identifying information for each athlete and date and time of sample collection, result summary – “abnormal” – and interpretation – “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype.” The second page offers photographic representation of the 22 paired autosomes and then, for each athlete, further depicts an X and a Y chromosome. Page three makes plain that the lab is a “national reference lab” and, as well, accredited by CAP, the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, and certified by the ISO, the Swiss-based International Organization for Standardization.

The old rule was smaller than an inch it's a clitoris, bigger than an inch it's a penis.

I suspect there are some very rich men out there who would be prepared to fund something like this if they thought it would muddy the waters of "what is a woman" a tiny bit further.

conversely, what makes you so sure Imane is a women? Have you checked her passport personally?

Because they failed blood tests on two occasions. But details of the tests have not been made public. IOC saw fit to include them both. What makes people so certain that they know Imane is a man pretending to be a woman, without any facts available? I'm no biologist or anything, but Imane wasn't born with a dick and balls and has grown up as a woman, so why be so cruel and call her a man, when she is not.

I’m speculating here but maybe doctors said lack of penis = female and they had a 50% chance of being right.

I’d imagine that it is an administrative ball ache getting official documents changed in a country where you can’t change gender and possibly costly but this is pure speculation on my part.

The two XY DSDs that have previously been considered not to confer a significant advantage due to a lack of a testosterone driven puberty ( CAIS and Swyer) are therefore highly unlikely.

But they were chosen as a propaganda lie precisely for this reason - to try to make out that the call exclusion is unreasonable.

Notably males with either condition are currently permitted into the female category unrestricted by World Athletics rules - while they restrict those with 5-ARD and similar conditions, like Semenya, Lin and Khelif. (They restrict 46XY individuals that can both produce and process testosterone.)

I don't know whether the IBA was making such a fine distinction, or if just 46XY was sufficient. So I think maybe plausibly "Swyers" might be a condition that the IBA rules would exclude, with debatable fairness, but clearly not the case here - Lin and Khelif are individuals who definitely should be excluded.

No. Viewed from the outside there isn't much nuance. But I can see how it would be possible to convince oneself in those specific circumstances. A LOT of people with no investment in this have also managed to "convince" themselves the boxers have a right to be there for example. They should never have been in that position in the first place anyway.