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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

THANK YOU MATTHEW PINSENT

218 replies

PermanentTemporary · 11/08/2024 19:45

On the Beeb now saying clear as day that the entire controversy over the boxing was wrong, it was the IOC's own fault and it needs fixing in the next Olympics cycle. No mention of individual athletes - the blame squarely where it belongs, with the mess the IOC allowed to happen.

I was a rower so he's a bit of a God to me anyway, but to say it so clearly and simply when I've been infuriated by practically everything I've read or heard about it, whichever angle it was from, was just AWESOME.

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Villagetoraiseachild · 11/08/2024 20:41

And in a mighty fine floral shirt too.
Substance and style.

viques · 11/08/2024 20:39

Dibbydoos · 11/08/2024 20:21

Inclusion can work but transsexuals need their own categories.

Women cannot fairly compete with transsexual women. Men cannot fairly compete with transsexual men.

It's really straight forward, how could they have got it so wrong?!

No need at all for special categories, people need to realise that if they want to compete in sport then they have to compete in their birth sex categories. This applies to people whose birth sex might have been confused at birth but whose genetic sex can be determined by testing. If people don’t want to do that then tough.

user1494050295 · 11/08/2024 20:34

So during the boat race in 2016 the Cambridge women’s second eight had a transgender woman in the crew and took the place of an actual woman. Cambridge were fuckers. Normally when crews are announced they say the name of the athletes original club. This time they didn’t. No surprises to learn the transgender woman’s original club was an all boys school where they learnt to row. Terrible. Thankfully money talks and donors responded by withholding their cheque books

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 11/08/2024 20:31

The fact is that in order to have inclusive there must be exclusive categories that have gatekeeping.

lonelywater · 11/08/2024 20:30

Dibbydoos · 11/08/2024 20:21

Inclusion can work but transsexuals need their own categories.

Women cannot fairly compete with transsexual women. Men cannot fairly compete with transsexual men.

It's really straight forward, how could they have got it so wrong?!

they still think its 2015, when few people knew (and even less gave a flying fuck about) the fact that the gender mentalists were deadly serious. Strange because I supposed the IOC was mostly fairly smart people who could have seen this coming. I would love to be in the room when this train wreck is discussed, as it surely must be.

Mainoo72 · 11/08/2024 20:30

Good for him. The majority of us can see the truth.

PermanentTemporary · 11/08/2024 20:29

I'll be absolutely delighted if the gold medallists involved go through an appropriate verification regime and are able to compete at the next Olympics in the female category.

As I said, I've been as infuriated by the 'they look like a bloke!' stuff as by the 'they're cis women you bigot!' stuff. It should never be about what individuals look like.

The most likely outcome is that they'll retire and we won't ever know.

OP posts:
StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 11/08/2024 20:28

Dibbydoos · 11/08/2024 20:21

Inclusion can work but transsexuals need their own categories.

Women cannot fairly compete with transsexual women. Men cannot fairly compete with transsexual men.

It's really straight forward, how could they have got it so wrong?!

Matthew Pinsent was speaking about IOC's mess in boxing. The current controversies are around the inclusion of people with VSDs.

Undoubtedly, VSDs are political cover to justify wider inclusion. Nonetheless:

  • transexual is a deprecated term
  • current issues concern VSDs
  • previous history in various events demonstrate that few people would identify into the categories you suggest etc.
KohlaParasaurus · 11/08/2024 20:25

I was gobsmacked that the BBC broadcast Matthew Pinsent's comments instead of cutting away to some footage of kittens playing with a ball of wool. I'm grateful to him for sticking his neck out and calling this shitshow for what it is.

Thebellofstclements · 11/08/2024 20:25

MorrisZapp · 11/08/2024 19:54

Isn't this the guy who can prove he is directly descended from god?

Fair play to him.

Yes! His face when told that was a picture, then he immediately returned to his usual very modest self. Proving that, if anyone is descended from God, then it is most likely to be him 😊

Dibbydoos · 11/08/2024 20:21

viques · 11/08/2024 19:53

He was very clear:

the IOC fucked it up,

the IOC needs to sort it out,

inclusion and fairness don’t work in sports.

Well said Matthew.

Inclusion can work but transsexuals need their own categories.

Women cannot fairly compete with transsexual women. Men cannot fairly compete with transsexual men.

It's really straight forward, how could they have got it so wrong?!

annejumps · 11/08/2024 20:21

HoppityBun · 11/08/2024 20:18

Yeah but I follow Al Jazeera on instagram and there’s massive Algerian support for this boxer, which is seen as standing up against white supremacy.

Whatever will they do when there's a 46XY 5RD athlete who's white? (I know that it's a rare DSD more likely to be found in populations that aren't 'white,' but....)

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 11/08/2024 20:21

Amazing that just speaking the truth makes a sporting hero into an actual hero. (Also an ex rower 👋)

I have a feeling that he's said something before that made me sure he knew what's what but maybe just my own blinkers/hope.

annejumps · 11/08/2024 20:20

lonelywater · 11/08/2024 20:17

can see it now-the 100 meters cat gender (whilst wearing a trilby at a jaunty angle) Jeez, it really has to come to this hasn't it?

That's one point I like to make—if there are "as many genders as there are people" then it's absurd to have "genders" in sport, by boys/men and girls/women. And if "sex is a spectrum" then it doesn't make sense to have "male" and "female" sports, surely. Sooooo we should be seeing activists fighting for one category, no "discrimination" by having either gender or sex divisions. But we're not seeing that. Why? Because these mediocre men need a pool of women to defeat and that's not going to be accomplished if they have to compete against men who are better than they are. It's that simple.

Sunraysunday · 11/08/2024 20:18

menopausalmare · 11/08/2024 20:00

That's David Icke.

On who do you think they are they traced Pinsent to royal lineage up to William the conqueror and onwards to God 😂

HoppityBun · 11/08/2024 20:18

Yeah but I follow Al Jazeera on instagram and there’s massive Algerian support for this boxer, which is seen as standing up against white supremacy.

3peassuit · 11/08/2024 20:17

If only Gary Lineker had the guts to say it.

lonelywater · 11/08/2024 20:17

viques · 11/08/2024 20:08

I think you mean sex testing, heaven help us if we start trying to categorise athletes into genders, the IOC can’t cope with two categories let alone a plethora of imagined self identities!

But I agree with you, it has to be sorted out as soon as possible.

can see it now-the 100 meters cat gender (whilst wearing a trilby at a jaunty angle) Jeez, it really has to come to this hasn't it?

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 11/08/2024 20:17

Sunshineandrainbow · 11/08/2024 20:01

Yes!!! Good for him

I have read that boxing might not be included in 2028 Olympics.

All boxing?

I don't watch boxing at all but I'm conflicted if it's to be removed because of the IOC's incompetence and vacillations rather than for principled reasons.

NB: I didn't see this before today but I was looking up Barbara Buttrick (British woman who was first World Champion in Women's Boxing, 1957) and came across this brief news piece from June '24.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxeelmvyd9go

ETA: That brief segment was probably very courageous of Matthew Pinsent!

Former world champion Barbara Buttrick teaches teen boxers a thing or two

Boxing pioneer enourages next generation of women

Former world champion Barbara Buttrick inspires next generation of women boxers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxeelmvyd9go

GailBlancheViola · 11/08/2024 20:13

Finally, someone speaking clearly and sensibly and bringing the problem down to the fundamental issue.

viques · 11/08/2024 20:13

CatDogGuineaPig · 11/08/2024 20:12

Yes, I definitely meant sex testing, all the talk about "gender testing" in all the coverage must have made me write that!

🙂

viques · 11/08/2024 20:12

dudsville · 11/08/2024 20:08

I didn't catch his name, but was this the guy who just said we can't have equality AND inclusion? Amazing!

He is Matthew Pinsent, a UK Gold medal winning rower, good to see a very well respected and male (former) athlete pinning his colours to the mast. First Daley Thompson, now Matthew, let’s hope more start speaking up to join the female former athletes who have been saying this for many years.

CatDogGuineaPig · 11/08/2024 20:12

Yes, I definitely meant sex testing, all the talk about "gender testing" in all the coverage must have made me write that!

Helleofabore · 11/08/2024 20:10

Brilliant!

I like the comment that IOC tried to organise boxing after excluding the experts in organise boxing.

It looks doubtful they have the expertise to run any sport to be fair.