Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

Yes, there is definitely a market for males beating up women for titillation.

Though by all accounts in the pre Olympic training camp, in Spain, Khelif was paired with Spain's top male boxer - as being the only fair match, after several female boxers had been injured during sparring sessions.

I'm sure Manuel can bulk up 10 pounds. For the right money.

No, can't unfortunately because Manuel is super featherweight. Pesky rules.

This is so confusing to me.

I can see how it would be appropriate to socially consider someone with Sywer's as female, and it would seem unlikely that they would have any advantage in sports over XX women (although I would like some data on this). That's fine.

But the term 'XY female' - biologically speaking, how does this exist? The mutation or deletion of the SRY or other genes that result in Swyer's prevent the development of a male reproductive system; female reproductive structures form to variable useful degree in its place, but crucially there is an inability to produce gametes.

People with Swyer's have streak gonads, which are non-functional for producing either sperm or eggs. If they have a normal uterus they require egg donation for pregnancy. I believe they are also given hormones at puberty to help develop secondary sex characteristics and healthy bone mass, so presumably these have to be continued/altered during pregnancy. All this is because, if not for their gene mutation(s), they would have developed as male.

There are no healthy XY people that produce eggs; thus there is no disease that affects XY people such that they cannot produce eggs when they were on the developmental pathway to producing them - because that developmental pathway doesn't exist. Therefore 'XY female' is a colloquialism for people where it would seem strange or cruel socially to consider them men, but technically they are male, no?

I remember thinking at the time of the whole Fallon Fox debacle that much of that whole Women's MMA world seemed to be served up for male titillation and there was a strong element of men enjoying seeing a real woman being really beaten up by a man.

He’s a good looking bloke with an interesting history and lots invested in him, so can probably milk celebrity status for a fair time. If I were writing the miniseries, I’d finish with a wedding in a historic/exotic setting to an obscure European royal and then surprise! babies and a spread in Hello magazine featuring the happy family.

That's a different perspective I hadn't considered, Red.

You're right. It'll appeal to the snuff video demographic.

You make it sound as a) we don't don't have pay per view porn b) all the women involved are there of their own free will c) there is no demand for porn.

I have seen Emma say this time and time again.

And she is right. She also is very clear about there being instances where this DSD and CAIS may shape her social acceptance. Which is obviously reasonable.

So, for clarity the categorisation is male for when it matters. For people with this condition, it doesn’t matter much outside medical discussions. For sport, at the moment, it doesn’t matter because they are accepted in the female category because they don’t have male pubertal advantage. I have always like her categorisation of who is male and who is female and when it matters.

Is there a criminal case to answer? It doesn't look like it to me, re the individuals, but X I guess could be held to account. I wonder why they're not going after the IBA? After all, it's them who started this whole thing by banning the pair of them. I note that Lin is keeping his head down, so assume he's been advised differently. Or is just generally less bullish, character-wise. He's got his gold, he's off.

She’s a professor of developmental biology - well known, well cited on most social media platforms as well as interviewed in the press. Emma Hilton. Feel free to message/DM her and ask her yourself, as I did - she’s always been very forthcoming when people are asking science questions.

I don’t need her to send me a billion papers on the subject - she’s read them all and peer reviewed most of them, she teaches, she researches and writes them. If she states that Swyers is a male DSD because they lack ovaries (ie the ability to produce large gametes) and have XY chromosomes I will take her word for it.

If he wins the criminal case (or French prosecutors do on his behalf) he'll use it to take a personal case for damages.

So the police have been complained to. I presume France has a similar system to us, where the French prosecution service looks at the evidence and decides if there's a case to answer? It probably won't make it to court in that case, based on my exceedingly limited understanding. Looks like they've just picked the 2 richest critics.
He'd have had more chance in a civil lawsuit, no?

IK could fight Patricio Manuel - US transman boxer, apparently quite useful when fighting as a woman, who is having trouble finding male opponents now that PM fights as a "man".

Best of 3? Best of 5? 8/10/13 episodes like a Netflix drama series?

I can see him becoming a joke and women who need the money fighting him.

Who would bother fighting him? He’s not going to face other men, he hasn’t the skill and he wouldn’t have the huge physical advantage. And what women would subject themselves to being beaten up by this man if they didn’t have to?

This is a criminal case. He's asking the French prosecutors to prosecute X for a criminal offence. Unless I've misunderstood French law (always possible), I don't see any evidence that Rowling, Musk or anyone else would be required to pay money to Khelif. From the Spectator article:

"The case is a criminal one and conviction could lead to two years imprisonment and a €30,000 fine for Rowling and Musk, but neither should be packing their toothbrushes yet for a stay in the Bastille."

Who would he fight though?

No sane woman would go into the ring against him. Maybe people would pay £20 to watch him get his arse handed to him by another guy, but that's not something he'll volunteer for.

He's after damages, an out of court settlement. Silly boy. As if.

RedToothBrush · Today 07:58

Someone could create individual pay per stream bouts. That requires creating enough demand and enough awareness of brand Khelif.

I don't think that possibly £19.95 per fight would be viable.

Someone could create individual pay per stream bouts. That requires creating enough demand and enough awareness of brand Khelif.

Well, quite. I mean, if Khelif is still excluded from IBA, WBC and ECB bouts, what events are left for Khelif to compete in?

Important article key point:

James Tidmarsh, a Paris lawyer who is qualified in both England and France, tells me:
‘In order to amount to cyber bullying under French law there would need to be intent to harm as well as a pattern of harassment against the same targeted individual. If there is no pattern of harassment shown against Khelif, and no specific intent to harm Khelif, the criminal case will not proceed.
And even if it were to proceed I seriously doubt that Musk could be extradited to France over this — the offense would also need to be a crime in the States for him to be at all concerned —which presumably under US First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech it is not.’

This whole thing is just legal BULLYING a publicity stunt. Thing is Khelif cheated his way to a medal and that is it. He will remain a hero in Algeria and amongst others, but he has NO future career in sports outside Algeria. He might be able to grift a LOT of money from morons though.

Women with Swyer can, with medical assistance, carry a pregnancy to term. So I think they're best described as female even if technically they are male by karyotype.

There are numerous claims that individuals with swyers are organised to gestate. please could your friend elaborate on this (with some evidence, it all feels a bit hear/say).
I get the odd feeling that the same way some groups try to use "intersex" as a wedge, someone is holding some information back about swyers. for example is it rare or systematic for their bodies to grow female reproductive organs i.e. uterus, ovaries, fallopian tubes etc. does every swyer patient have these? are they routinely functional? Or functional in only rare cases?

There's someone on the boards pushing for people to believe that individuals with swyers are female (sorry cant remember who and i can't be arsed to check) which I don't mind but something seems held back.