Algerian boxer filing legal claim over online harrassment

Dammit that was a quote and I forgot to format.

Exactly this. And if scientists manage to crack the puzzle of creating viable sperm from female cells - and they're making good progress - then the sole reason for men even existing will be obsolete. We can but hope.

You all are not real women

Not by the definition you're using, no.

Biologically, there is no doubt what I am. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I know!

I feel ill watching males beat up females for entertainment. I guess it takes all sorts 🤷‍♀️

This has exposed the worst of humanity to me and I feel physically ill. To watch a mob of people repeatedly misgender someone due to false information is one thing. On top of that, demanding a generic test and medical evidence of their sex. Entitlement and bigotry. Disgusting. This is why people hurt themselves. This is why people are murdered for their differences by intolerant and power hungry bullies. Shame on all of you. You all are so disappointing.

Imagine if your child was treated this way by a bunch of strangers on the Internet.

The world has much worse.going on than a masculine looking woman winning a sporting event.

Get your heads out of your asses please "ladies". You all are not real women.

Gross.

Yes and no.

From the point of view of the women who are losing out, whether a male who has been faciliated to participate in, and thereby destroy, a woman-only activity felt entitled to do so because he has a DSD or because he is trans is ultimately irrelevant. Either way, trans or DSD, the women lose out the same, either way their activity is destroyed the same.

So to that degree I think we agree.

But I don't think this means we should untangle trans from DSD, I think we need to keep in sight that the question is about male people as a whole not different rules for different groups of male people.

The people think it matters why a specific male is there are focussing on the male side of the equation rather than the female side.

This is really interesting. Thanks for posting this.

No no.

It's Schrödingers Feminist. progressive in recognising a woman on the basis of a passport and self I'd whilst ignoring biology and science. But also, at the same time, incredibly backwards culturally in refusing to talk about things like periods and girls being allowed to box in the first place and having poor healthcare to identify DSDs so it's dreadfully awful for those who find out later so we must treat them as women out of pity and because we are kind otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to play.

Yes Algeria is thinking of this from a feminist point of view.

All whilst having a bunch of coaches on the look out for 'exceptional' women for sport.

Funny how that seems to always benefit the males in the equation to the detriment of females in terms of participation, achievement, safety and dignity.

More than hapy to retract and publicly apologise for every word I've said about this when Khelif produces the test results that show him to be XX female.

Being what the internet calls "XY female" is not going to cut it, I'm afraid. Sorry for the guy if he grew up believing himself to be female and then puberty hit and revealed that not to be the case. Must be a distressing time (although maybe not - maybe it was a great realisation and made his life make more sense.)

I'm happy to admit I was wrong when I'm proved wrong. Just waiting for the proof now. Simple cheek swab test will be enough for me. If there's no Y, he's not a guy, end of story.

Yes the reinvention of Algeria as a feminist nation has certainly given me a chuckle or two.

And why would they do this? Do they have an interest in safeguarding women in boxing? There is a word here that's relevant. Clue: It's not 'feminist'.

I think that is down in large part to the Algerian sports bodies encouraging and enabling it.

And each of those people with DSDs will be able to be classified as male or female based on their karyotype, genetic screening for SRY, endogenous hormone levels, hormone sensitivity tests, etc.
All of the stuff you agreed with in your previous paragraph

What about those who don’t fit neatly into these categories, like intersex athletes

There's no such thing as being between sexes. "Intersex" is a loaded, activist term not a medical one. There are disorders of sex development for both males and females. There is no third sex.

The posters who have such sympathy for these poor athletes discovering they are no longer eligible for women's competitions clearly don't have much experience of sport beyond school P.E.

Elite sport is a marathon of avoiding injury and struggling year after year to remain top in your field or get cut. For every single athlete in the Olympics there are probably hundreds of almost-rans who were infinitesimally too slow, messed up one critical race / routine, didn't recover from an unfortunate injury in time for selection.

I know athletes who have had chosen not to take medication because it would disqualify them. I've known teenagers who have been kicked off teams because they didn't realise they couldn't take over the counter cold medication and they're classed as doping.

So female athletes, who have managed to clear all these hurdles, put their lives on hold for years, prioritising sport over time with family and friends and progressing at work, and then they get to the Olympics only to discover that it was all for nothing because they are competing against a male who should never have been allowed in their category. Maybe realign your sympathy to them?

I have a modicum of sympathy, up until the point that the independent test his team ordered showed he is male and yet he still decided to step into the ring and put female lives at risk.

Just their mothers?

Sadly, I perceive a very permissive wider societal support for this behaviour.

Imagine if Californian law makers tried to impose state law over other Americans from red states and those around the world entering the games.

And what the implications would be for future games in other countries which went the other way restricting the entry of say, gay competitors.

Good luck with that.

I find it astonishing that so many people value female sport so little. They clearly see it as the pity category. Why else are they so keen to allow males with medical conditions in?

Thats more like it.
Better that than let ourselves be jostled out of the picture by spoilt brats whose mothers didnt set boundaries.

Yes you're right, I think @RedToothBrush

International agreed sports laws by governing bodies would prevent entry before you stepped foot in LA. Local laws are irrelevant for this point.

Yes I'd be very interested in an American legal analysis of what it would mean for the Olympics.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I understand the frustration and desire for clarity on what defines a woman, especially when it comes to the fairness and integrity of women’s sports. The points you’ve raised about XX chromosomes, testosterone levels, and puberty are certainly measurable factors that could form the basis of a clear definition.

However, it’s important to recognize that biology is more complex than these factors alone. There are people with DSDs (Differences in Sex Development) who may not fit neatly into the XX/XY binary but have lived their lives as women. This complexity is one of the reasons why defining sex and gender in strict terms is challenging, and why governing bodies have struggled to create policies that are both fair and inclusive.

The idea of everyone being eligible for men’s sports unless proven otherwise does seem straightforward, but it raises significant ethical and legal questions. For example, how do we address the privacy and dignity of individuals undergoing these tests? What about those who don’t fit neatly into these categories, like intersex athletes, who may have characteristics of both sexes?

I agree that it can feel like women’s identities are being questioned more than men’s, and that’s a valid concern. But I also think that as society evolves, these conversations are necessary to ensure we create spaces where everyone is respected and treated fairly. The challenge is finding a balance between protecting the integrity of women’s sports and being compassionate towards individuals whose experiences don’t fit neatly into traditional categories.

It’s not an easy issue, and I think that’s why we’re still discussing it. There’s no perfect solution, but I believe that by continuing to have respectful, fact-based discussions, we can work towards policies that uphold fairness while recognizing the complexities of human biology and identity.