What is a woman?

It’s a man who says he’s a woman.

And I take the gold for the correct answer.

Having a vagina or not is completely irrelevant to whether someone should be in female sport though.

The only body parts that actually are relevant are ovaries and ovary tissue. If a human has a body formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether those gametes are ever produced or not, they are female.

If a body has no ovaries and has testes, whether the testes are visible externally or not, the person is male genotype. And if the body produces testosterone and uses that testosterone to virilise the body; that person is male.

These two boxers at the heart of this controversy were both tested twice. They had been told by the IBA the results. They had the results explained to them. They have now know definitively they were male since 2023.

At what point should a person who knows why they were excluded from a category for female because they were male, take responsibility for their own choice to put female athletes at such risk of serious injury?

It has also been said by those who support Semenya’s inclusion into female sports that Semenya has a vagina too. We have been in this position before. An athlete with supposedly with a vagina, being touted as a ‘woman with naturally high testosterone’, a background of significant hardship, it all sounds familiar.

In court, the evidence was presented that Semenya is indeed male. Has 5ARD, may even have that vagina. Vagina doesn’t function much like a vagina though, and doesn’t matter at all. Because Semenya has fully productive testes as far as producing testosterone is concerned. Semenya now even says their ‘testicles don't make them less of a woman’. Of course, they make Semenya male.

These two boxers have been tested to show they are xy chromosome and have been judged by their boxing federation to have male advantage. You seem to choose to ignore those tests. It further has been confirmed by a team member, even naming an endocrinologist who has agreed with those tests, for Khelif. Wishful thinking is not going to change these tests. Ignoring them doesn’t change the reality.

And really, your question here is irrelevant.

I have a better question
What is a man?

Quite.

This.

Neither of the boxers are women. They’re men with a DSD.

They could father children but not bear or birth them.

"Going by K's assertion" is about as eye-rollingly bizarre as going by the claims of the Karen Whites and Isla Brysons of this world to be women.

Sorry meant to quote @concretevase

I'm going by Khelifs assertion she is female and always has been

Good for you. I'm not, I'm going with the balance of evidence available to me.

having a uterus and eggs and periods and having the possibility to have children, having boobs, being a woman, having periods, being born female, having a female name, being raised female are now not even enough to be classified as a woman??

Where do you get the idea that any of these things apply here? "Having a female name" what does that mean? A whole host of men have a "female name".

"Identifies as" is usually code for "lying", as in men claiming to be women for whatever reason. In this case, to get him Olympic gold he wouldn't get if he was honest about his sex, or if the IOC weren't misogynistic enough to let him cheat.

Unfortunately we had this with caster semenya for years where users were told - no they are female born XX straight as they come.

So people aren’t really fucking about with pussy footing about this anymore. There’s clearly an issue. The exact issue we don’t know the specifics of.

These conditions are so rare yet they time and time again seem to be winning Olympic competitions! So they shouldn’t be competing.

I get it. It’s sad. They have trained, and then ‘find out this news’. Bear in mind it’s 2024. I’m not buying potential top athletes for a country are not being coached, health tested, sex tested etc. etc.

And I get it also. There’s some confusing stuff. The Y might not be expressed properly. The SRY gene not switched on. The male puberty missed. Even not having a male advantage at all etc etc. But so what?!?

The women’s category is not the people who have a slightly mucked up Y chromosome, nor the uterus category, or the vagina category, or the low testosterone category, nor the non-peni category, not any other insane twist.

It’s the female category. It’s so 50% of humanity have an equal opportunity to be able to compete. If one of those has XX chromosome, a penis and a shit load of testosterone then so be it. You go sister and you got lucky on that for sport.

Hopefully that clears up my stance on this.

It doesn't matter what imane identifies as what does matter is what body type and that is now confirmed as male.

Any evidence to back that theory up? Nothing I have read suggests she has ever identified as anything other than female

No.

But if they have one of a few DSDs that lead to misidentification of sex at birth they may well have an inpouching of the perineum that can look superficially like a vagina. It isn't one though.

Stop trying to keep this improbable belief alive. There was most likely no vagina present on this athlete at birth.

Men have vaginas now?

Presumably she has a vagina if she was assumed female at birth.

Invalid premise.

So another doctor confirms Karotype and testosterone level.

And confirmation that testosterone is being suppressed to ‘female’ range.

And confirms the IBA disqualification was based on tests, not politics.

It is awful how much hate this woman has received. Presumably she has a vagina if she was assumed female at birth. She would never be accepted as male, especially where she comes from, and now she isn’t being accepted as female. She identifies as female, has been brought up as female, to me she is female. If she has a condition that gives her physical advantages on par with men then she should not be allowed to box with other women (I haven’t read any definite answers on this just a lot of assumptions). Calling her male is just offensive.

According to the IOC, a woman is either a man who says he is, or one of the subhumans who are useful for inadequate men to beat (literally and metaphorically) in the Olympics. Can't have athletically substandard dudes missing out or being forced to compete against other men, now, can we?

I'm going to get popcorn while I wait for op to realise she's bought the lie that these boxing olympians have any kind of female plumbing.

Testes all the way. possibly full male plumbing.. most likely unusable but may not be infertile. I'm willing to bet that that's all that's there.

XX

Right. So another doctor confirms Karotype and testosterone level.

And confirmation that testosterone is being suppressed to ‘female’ range.

No female person in sport ever has to suppress their testosterone. Only male people.

And if they have to suppress their testosterone, it is evidence that their body has been virilised by that testosterone at puberty. Every day there is more and more being published that shows the massive inconsistencies in this particular case. Last night across the world a coach put their hand on Khelif’s chest. What male would do this to someone they viewed as female on media being streamed across the world when they seek to maintain credibility?

Bodies arranged around the production of large gametes aka eggs whether or not they actually can produce them. Xx chromosomes.

I missed who did that particular chart, 1 high pink will be Rachel another is probably Lia Thomas. No way did Rachel do that on sex and not gender so half the blue are probably female too.

But I don’t have a girl’s sensitivity, does that mean I am not a woman?