What is a woman?

Only X chromosomes

I knew I recognised that graph. Iirc veronica ivy/Rachel McKinnon used very specific criteria for the graphs. The height one was a masterclass in graph making to show your biased view.

Or in other words women are not often as tall or taller than men, but veronica's choices of athlete women who were taller than average and Male athletes shorter than average made a very interesting graph.

Please explain the XY karyotype results from two independent laboratories, and a member of Khelif's own coaching team stating that Khelif was assessed by an endocrinologist who identified chromosome and hormonal abnormalities, and that Khelif has recently been on testosterone suppression.

How does this evidence fit with your view that Khelif is female?

You've been given every available piece of evidence indicating that Khelif is male in this thread. Why ignore it all?

Interestingly, males with 5-ARD don't grow coarse hair - that's one of the signs. They don't grow beards or much in the way of pubic hair.
The colloquial name "penis at 12" is particular to one specific area - southern central Africa, I think. In other parts of the world where it clusters, they have different names for it, but it shows it's well known as a phenomenon in some parts of the world.
I was listening to Dr Emma Hilton, who is an expert, and she said that the greatest incidence worldwide is in Egypt and Turkey! Although there are clusters in the Dominican Republic (the Guevedoces community), and southern central Africa - and probably others that I don't know of.
It's tempting to think that in those places, a) there is no stigma and b) the "girls" just accept that they are turning into grown men, not women.

I find it fairly shocking the number of people who don't know the difference between a vulva and a vagina. Having external genitals that look superficially, at birth, like a vulva, doesn't mean that the baby in question has a vagina, or a uterus.

No! This proves nothing and is unhelpful, in fact entrenches Imane’s supporters in their opinions.

This kind of image can be easily faked.

There is better evidence- the testimony of the IOC, the WBO, IBA, EUBAA and the video interviews given by her coach which have been translated and transcribed.
He says Imane is a woman, and has issues with her chromosomes and testosterone levels which are being suppressed. He describes the massive medical support Imane has received to achieve this. Details the experts around the world that have contributed to Imane’s training.

All the information shared points to a specific DSD which requires Imane be male. There is no DSD of women which meets the evidence we have.

There is no excuse not to know for sure. The IOC should know for sure whether these two boxers are female or not, and should have disqualified them from the competition if they are not.

Following the Laurel Hubbard debacle in Tokyo, the IOC tried to absolve themselves of all responsibility for ensuring fairness in the women's categories by saying they would leave it up to the individual governing bodies for each sport to decide on the eligibility criteria.

The governing body for boxing disqualified these two boxers from competing on the basis of the results of the tests that they had carried out.

If the IOC decided that the credibility of the IBA was in doubt and therefore the results of their tests couldn't be relied on and their decision should be disapplied, they should have carried out their own tests.

They did not do so.

Why?

Because if you ban a male athlete with a DSD from competing in women's categories then you also have to ban male athletes with transgender identities from competing in them. And the IOC doesn't want to say that trans women are not real women because that wouldn't fit with their "so woke our brains have fallen out" image.

My biggest problem with the trans debate is trans women telling me that 'just because I have a vagina and uterus and I have given birth' I don't know what it means to be a woman, according to trans experience.

Also, this seems like a bizarre way that you have rationalised this, what are you on about? Who cares what men who wrongly think they are women "experience"? My biggest problem with the "trans debate" is that women can no longer have single sex spaces when we need them, and that it's a green light for all sorts of misogynists.

You don't actually need to have a vagina and uterus and give birth to be a woman. But it's a female experience, yes.

You think this is a woman, OP? Seriously?

If your voice breaks at puberty and you grow an Adam's apple and male pattern body hair and male musculature, instead of having periods, it must make anyone wonder if they are, in fact, a girl. Especially in countries where 46 XY 5ard DSD is more common. The colloquial name for this DSD is 'penis at 12' because the virilisation of testosterone at puberty means that the male organs put on significant growth.

OP didn't bother to answer this point in any sort of reasoned way, she just called me a "quintessence keyboard warrior" and said she just believed Khelif and Khelif's supporters. Because they'd have zero reason to lie, obvs.

And here's an interview where Caster describes women and girls as 'they' and 'them'. It's almost as if Caster has forgotten he's supposed to pretend to think he's a woman.

I've been to lesbian weddings where both brides wore dresses, and one where both brides wore a suit. But I've never been to one where one bride groped the other bride's breasts in the wedding photos. It's almost like Caster's wife doesn't think Caster is a woman.

At least 6 threads.

People have explained over the course of at least threads what their own rationale is for believing Khelif is male. OP doesn't have anything to counter it or refute it other than "you can't prove it".

I don't think she is male. And have not seen any evidence otherwise.

Nope. Can't see a thing. It must not exist.

Read your own thread. People have posted the trainer's statement, they've posted analysis from an expert who's seen the test results. You're going to want some gravy for that hat.

Because you have made a choice to ignore the evidence that has been presented.

What reason do you have for explaining why Dr. Ioannis Filippatos, an obstetrician gynaecologist would be lying about the results? Or do you believe he is mistaken?

But I don't think she is male. And have not seen any evidence otherwise.

Where is the evidence that khelif is female?

Khelif was tested in an accredited lab and the results were interpreted as not eligible for the female category. Khelif didnt follow through with any challenge to that interpretation.

The IOC say that they are taking documents as proof of eligibility for the womens category, not test results.

We know that for more than one reason, it is possible for people to have the incorrect sex markers on their passports and birth certificates. Lots of other sports don't use these as proof of sex for this reason.

The IOC could have sorted this out well before these athletes even qualified by carrying out tests. Then everyone could be sure that they arent watching men hit women for entertainment.

You are funny OP you believe what you want, and so will other people. You only "can't see the evidence" because you have chosen not to.

OP, do you still think Caster Semenya is a woman?

Where is your evidence of the coach and the DSDs which you were going on about?

I posted the relevant bit. RTFT you started.

But what if I am not wrong? What if she genuinely is female and always has been, and was telling the truth all along?

What if I've got a really interesting bridge to sell you?