What is a woman?

So the evidence we have that Khelif is male:

The two IBA chromosome tests carried out by independent, reputable labs in 2022 and 2023, in response to complaints about several boxers by female boxers and their coaches

The fact that Khelif dropped the challenge to the Court of Arbitration in Sport

The legal threats to the IBA by Algerias Olympic committee if they published the tests

The experience of women who have fought against Khelif, that it felt like being hit by a man

The interview with coach George Cazorla which stated that Khelif has a problem with chromosomes, karyotype and has to suppress testosterone

The facepalm moment where the IOC confidently stated that it was "not a DSD case" then had to formally and publicly correct this statement, to say that they had meant to say "transgender case".

The experience of Joana Nwamerue and the fact that she was told a cock and bull story about "living in the mountains"

But sure, no evidence, nothing to see at all

The issue of Khelif’s sex came up during the Sofia training session, with members of the Algerian National Team apparently playing defense for Khelif and insisting to other participants that he was a woman who had somehow been biologically altered by living in the mountains.

Khelif’s] teammates came to me and told me ‘Imane is not a man. She is a woman and just lives high in the mountains with her relatives and parents and so there may be a change in her testosterone or chromosomes and the like,'” Nwamerue says. “So myself and my coach watched [Khelif] and I said ‘that can’t be possible.’ Everywhere has people living in the mountains. It’s absurd.”

Nwamerue adds that her coach replied incredulously, questioning the “mountain” theory of Khelif’s physical abnormalities by noting that other world and European boxing federations had implemented bans on him, and that “only the Olympics” was allowing Khelif to compete.

“Obviously there’s some competition between federations and they’re shitting on one another, but it’s extremely unfair. It’s like pitting a motorcycle against a bicycle,” Nwamerue explains. “For people who don’t understand combat sports. Motor vs bicycle. Will the bicycle be faster and win, or the motorbike?”

That's astonishing!

https://x.com/reduxxmag/status/1823060424092197202?s=46&t=SPorwN-mokktL467rcZ57g

A female boxer who trained with Imane Khelif has come forward to assert that Khelif "is a man."

Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains.

This is like headbutting a floor.

I think you're probably right. Might unwatch the thread so I'm not tempted to engage again, it's too frustrating.

I do admire your patience on this type of thread!

Well quite. Someone once told me I looked like a man when I had my hair cut short. I thought he was a rude prat. I didn't start thinking all women with short hair are actually male.

I feel deeply sorry for anyone in this situation. But their feelings don’t make it ok for them to box as female in the olympics, any more than it would be ok to allow a heavyweight boxer to compete with a flyweight boxer because they didn’t like how heavy they were or felt like they were a flyweight boxer or had broken scales and thought they were a different weight than they were. It would suck for them and we could be sympathetic, but that wouldn’t make it ok to let them compete against people much smaller and weaker than them.

It’s difficult to understand your point because you clearly haven’t done much research on (or don’t quite understand) basic biology. That makes it hard to take you seriously when the topic of discussion is biology-related.

Yes but they’re not found in the uterus are they?

Do you know how the female reproductive system works? If not, I recommended googling it before you go any further. It’ll help your argument.

Well, quite.

But also, it appears from what Dr Emma Hilton and other experts say, these boxers have internal testes. They are male in that they would be incapable of conceiving and gestating a foetus.

Hermaphrodites are mythical- they’ve never existed.

I have literally been told, whilst pregnant, by a MTF trans member of my family that that she has more of an experience of being a woman because a trans woman has it much harder than a cis woman.

Well, the only thing to do is laugh at such a ridiculous statement.

I wonder what the chances are of those people, entered into the correct category for their sex, also being Olympic athletes?

Hahaha, okay, apologies @Allthegoodnamesarechosen , it's very hot here today, I'm not firing on all cylinders

Someone said something mean to me so I'm going to give away all female boxing is a weird flex.

I dont even think this guy has a DSD. I think the IOC pulled that out their ass when people started speaking out.

I dont believe for one min this guy has lived as a woman.
Nothing indicates either from him or people around him that he is viewed as a woman in his society

Fuckoff its about how in Islam and other religions women and girls can be only seen as valuable as wives and mothers.

I guess you're joking but just pondering....surely it's only deadnaming if it reveals a difference in sex. Otherwise its just using a different name.

Why. Is. There. Nothing. From. The. IOC. To. Prove. It. One. Way. Or. The. Other?

If you decide not to recognise the authority of the organisation that claims to have tested these athletes' chromosomes and found that they are male, you need to do your own damn tests before allowing them to compete in female categories.

Not just rely on what it says in their passports, which may have nothing to do with their actual biological sex.

I think that the post was sarcasm. Deeply sarcastic.

Almost everyone here has educated ourselves.

That's why we're gender critical.

And also, presumably, that it is true.

My favourite McKinnon/Ivy tale is when he raced in Manchester and one puzzled older person wanted to know what the 'lardy lad' was doing racing with the women.
Bahahaha

OP, your feelings were hurt when your foolish relative tried to diminish your identity as being less important than his, despite you being pregnant at the time.

You’ve taken your pain at his poor behaviour and identified it onto Imane. Because it was awful being told you weren’t a proper woman the way a man who had to work at it is.
So you think it’s awful for Imane.
You are misapplying your outrage.

Now, your relative who is adamant they are more of a woman than you- he would be allowed in the ring with women by the IOC. You know that’s wrong. You agree that’s wrong.

The IOC is using that same system- the one you know is wrong- to include Imane. Other sports organisations wouldn’t allow Imane to compete among women. The coach acknowledges there was a problem with the sex testing and the testosterone levels. Other coaches acknowledge there was a problem finding peers to train with Imane, they had to get high ranking men for that. The IOC themselves have acknowledged that Imane isn’t trans and it’s not ‘not a DSD issue’, and that the criteria Imane competes under is the F in Imane’s passport.