What is a woman?

she's also lost nine consecutive matches

Incorrect.

Nine matches in total, not consecutive. More than half of those were in the first 6 competition matches IK took part in - so when very inexperienced - and all were against much more experienced fighters. Boxing is about skill as well as strength.

Interesting discussion on this subject if anyone is interested.

OP, you say there is no publically available proof that either boxer is XY.

You also very confidently state that they have the full set of function female reproductive anatomy (including, apparently, a double helping of periods - for which they have my sincerest sympathy). Please provide the public proof of this.

And maybe you could also note down what you think are the male and female reference ranges of testosterone (for the latter, it does indeed rise during pregnancy but the level is unrelated to the sex of the fetus).

Your eggs are in your ovaries, not your uterus.

Who is the person you are describing in your OP?

@concretevase you sound very empathic and concerned about Imane.

It seems there are two possibilities-
you are right and Imane is being picked on
or
you are wrong and multiple women have been forced to box a massively more powerful male opponent, and have lost out on their chance at the Olympics.

If it’s the second one, do you feel empathy for those women as well?

Well, given the OP's updates, it seems I got it horribly wrong in my post above 😆. So, here we go again: people stating that we don't know for sure that they're XY, but also stating, without evidence, that they were "born female", have "female body parts", "have all the female anatomy", etc.

So much information posted on so many threads, please go and have a look before posting repetitive, ill-informed, BS!

That's it, I'm out.

@concretevase

a) it’s is correct that it somewhat speculative. What we can deduce from the information available that both people have failed two tests. The Algerian appealed it, and then withdrew. Why? Well because at the Court of Arbitration Sport the DNA or other tests would become public knowledge.

If i was a female being accused of being male i would go public.

B) If you have a “Y” then you are a male. It’s not a letter it is a scientific expression of your DNA.

C) women naturally have testosterone, they, never have the same levels. As men or anywhere near.

D) you are assuming he is female, when it is obvious with ones own eyes he is not, and how it is offensive to you in the way you describe is nonsense/.

E) I do not understand.

F) same as above

G) most likely he was mistakenly identified as a female at birth and once he hit puberty developed as a man, sad as that is he is not female, and he should not be in women’\s boxing.

He can live as a woman for the rest of his life for all i care, fine by me. But you cannot have a situation of genetic, testosterone loaded men in women’s sport.

End of.

Eggs in their uterus? I keep mine in my ovaries, but I’d still be a woman if my ovaries were removed. Adult human female

You sound awfully confused and woefully lacking in any sort of knowledge of basic biology OP.

Firstly, everyone (including you OP) who has an absolute position on this seems to know far more about the biology of these individuals than has been released to the press.

Secondly, if this person was assigned/observed female at birth and brought up as female, that may be highly relevant to their life, social context, mental health, etc, but it is irrelevant to their status as a male or female boxer.

@concretevase I would agree that it would be awful for Imane to overcome all that as a woman, and now face this challenge, however…

Would a woman who has overcome all the things you mention be seen like this?

But I thought his fallopian tubes were clearly visible?

Or something.

Nice bit of racial stereotyping.

You seem to be conflating facts about you with facts about imane. Yes, you have all those female organs.

Imane- well obviously we can’t tell much about internal organs by looking at Imane boxing.

However… the IOC corrected themselves when they said it’s not a DSD. So it’s a DSD, or they wouldn’t have needed to correct themselves. And that ties in with the tests seen by a journalist/edic, the IBO WBA and EUBA.

But Khelif is a man, who based on the publicly-available information, has a DSD only men can have.

He wasn't born female, he was misidentified by the doctor only having a cursory glance at what looked like a vulva.

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su3z20xxnfzgtao0gy

3 Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”

For both Khelif and Lin, the New Delhi test – from, as IBA disclosed Monday, the independent Dr Lal PathLabs – consists of three pages. In part:

The first page provides, along with basic identifying information for each athlete and date and time of sample collection, result summary – “abnormal” – and interpretation – “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype.” The second page offers photographic representation of the 22 paired autosomes and then, for each athlete, further depicts an X and a Y chromosome. Page three makes plain that the lab is a “national reference lab” and, as well, accredited by CAP, the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, and certified by the ISO, the Swiss-based International Organization for Standardization.

@concretevase your argument is built on sand. Individuals with XY chromosomes - even those with DSDs that make their external genitalia appear female - are unable to have had periods or carry a child without significant medical intervention. With medical intervention, those things would only be possible for individuals with Swyer Syndrome, as that's the only DSD effecting XY individuals which allows for the development of a uterus. In fact, the failure to start menstruating at the normal age is typically the trigger to start the investigations that leads to diagnosis.

If you're interested in the science behind it then https://www.theparadoxinstitute.com/read/sex-development-charts?fbclid=IwY2xjawEksNBleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHakzc8C69HIhjIHE82ugsInRI8ZNhGB_obvFXxHQZunyUmQlhQ3zeMXrrA_aem_meSI8FRha93_hSQydn4U5Q is good.

But they don't hang around in the uterus, they sit in the fallopian tubes after being expelled by the ovaries.

I think the OP's comments are a critique on the hi-jacking of the term "woman" by trans ideologists? That it's meaning has been twisted away from what most sane people would once have recognised as self-evident?

Radical idea here, can we define a man instead, why is the focus on what is a woman. Maybe that will offer some clarity to those in the room who may need to consider going to spec savers.

OP, is your issue that being female has nothing to do with looking feminine? Do you think people are writing the boxers off because they don’t look feminine?

If so, never fear! There’s much more to it than that!