Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

Does anyone on this thread not accept that Khelif has a DSD?

And you'll notice I never said the IBA was squeaky clean, either. If it comes to not taking statements seriously, I don't take seriously any of the bullshit claiming these men are women. I take it as bog-standard male supremacism.

Their team have said that after their own testing showed an issue testosterone levels are being suppressed. There would be no need if the DSD in question is Swyers.

Hilarious that some are still clutching at straws given how much information has now been given by their own team.

If they were XY females that would make them Swyers, right? And that quite evidently is not the case----

The karyotype was analysed at two independent testing laboratories, the results have been independently witnessed, and a member of Khelif’s own team has confirmed the findings.

But sure, let’s still pretend we’ve always been at war with Eastasia and Ignorance is Strength🙄

I love how you're just repeating Russian bot propaganda. "IBA good! IOC bad!"

I never said the IOC was squeaky clean. I also think your last statement is simply exaggeration so I can't take the rest of what you say seriously.

Love all the “IBA is corrupt!!! You can’t trust them or the labs they used! 😱” bullshit that conveniently ignores the IOC’s history of corruption and its blatant refusal to do simple tests that would answer the question. They’re all about pushing women out of sport to give lying, mediocre male cheats the limelight.

So you're using scientific rigour? How do you know for sure that you're correct? You're relying on:

• Hearsay
• Biased discussion board posts
• Limited information from a corrupt sorting federation
• Medical testimony from above federation

And it has been a hubbub. That can't be denied.

Isn't elite competition level too late to start testing ?

Because it's unfair for DSD athletes to find out they're ineligible only at a comparatively advanced stage in their career.

But most especially because all women need to be treated fairly and safely in sport, not just the relatively small numbers at the top.

Reduxx now has the article up on the interview with Joana Nwamerue. https://reduxx.info/khelif-is-a-man-female-boxer-who-fought-imane-khelif-speaks-out-claims-algerian-boxing-team-told-her-khelif-had-been-biologically-altered-by-living-in-the-mountains/ including a summary of past articles.

And I should add that at the time there had not been any well-known incidents of trans women entering women's sports and claiming to be women. Even though this wasn't that long ago, things have changed a lot since then. The thinking as I recall really was that this was a woman being unfairly judged.

I remember it being commonly thought at the time that Semenya was a woman with high testosterone who was a victim of racist bias against "manly" women. The NYT was pretty clear about this as I recall. At the time I don't think there was anything about DSDs in the media.

So in Rio, three men won medals in a women's event, and hardly anyone knew at the time, and even now, only a minority probably do. And in Paris, two men won boxing gold. And a few more people know. Is this progress? Hopefully enough to shake the IOC up a bit, with Bach going.

I just had a quick skim of the first 20-30 pages of Chand’s CAS ruling and fuck me, it reads like it was written by Rachel Veronica Ivy McKinnon 😬

Basically, we don’t know what caused Chand’s unusual level of testosterone because under the IAAF 2011 gender eligibility rules they weren’t allowed to take anything into consideration when assessing an athlete’s sex except their testosterone levels!

They could send athletes for chromosome tests/abdominal ultrasounds etc (‘Three Step Testing’) but only to try and work out whether the extra T was generated by the athletes own gonads or if they were doping.
If the T levels were coming from the ‘female’ athlete’s massive, totally healthy, testicles?

No biggie, still a lady, still totally eligible for the lady category!
As long as Wilhemena Big Balls was willing to suppress T levels to under 10nmol per litre all was well in the world!

Chand did not undergo Three Step Testing and was unwilling to lower T levels, Caster Semenya tried for a while but started losing)

Here’s some fun, gaslighty extracts - I particularly like the ‘It’s sexist to set a high testosterone limit for women because men don’t have a cap’ ruse, bearing in mind that the testosterone cap was a) well above naturally occurring female levels and b) that T under 10nmol per litre was the only physical criteria that was used to decide if an athlete was eligible for the female category!

The expert witnesses are all disagreeing with each other but one pair of experts did state that almost all female athletes tested for testosterone levels were under 3nmol per litre and the ONLY ones that weren’t under 3 were the ‘female’ athletes with XY chromosomes plus 3 biological females who were suspected of doping!

Which explains how come Caster Semenya (court case 4 years after Chand’s) was described as a ‘female athlete with high testosterone’ for the first several years of Caster’s career (an inaccuracy that still persists in the press today) - the only criteria the IAAF had for defining femaleness was sex on your ID paperwork plus testosterone under 10nmol - Caster ticked the (erroneous) F on the birth cert criteria but failed the second criteria, hence being declared as ‘high T’ female.

www.doping.nl/media/kb/3317/CAS%202014_A_3759%20Dutee%20Chand%20vs.%20AFI%20%26%20IAAF%20%28S%29.pdf

😍

Well that explains why mountainous regions are sparsely populated - all the lay-dees get turned into menz.

It's the best being the enemy of the good, isn't it? But a lame argument. So, rather than risk the vanishingly small possibility than an athlete with a very rare DSD who happened to be XY and female, and also good enough to be at elite competition level, might be harshly done by, it'd be better to screw over women athletes? Why not go for a system that is 99.9% fair, rather than the status quo, which clearly has no fairness at all?

Too late for worrying, Fenlandia!

The idea of it being bots, at least mostly, is actually slightly comforting! Although, as I say, I've had a couple of real life people at it.

I hadn't actually considered that this stuff might come from bots. If it does, that's somewhat reassuring, as it suggests that there are fewer morons around than I thought.

My FB feed is full of this crap at the moment - hundreds of posts praising the 'gorgeous girl', having a pop at JK, lots of 'go girl'. If it's not Russian bots, the world is even madder than I thought. But it's Bots, innit?

I heard someone on Radio 4's Today Programme this morning saying the IOC will simply drop women's boxing from the next Olympics if there is no new governing body because they do not want to have to deal with the gender nightmare ever again. World Boxing is apparently the emerging new body. Does anyone know how it proposes to deal with men who want to punch women?

Fair enough I've only seen them on random accounts that Facebook has suddenly decided to show me or once or twice shared by people I actually know but not written by them. The ones I have seen 'Khelef is just like Princess Diana' don't read like the work of real people.

A couple looked real. One was from a real Facebook friend. And then comments on their post from others saying similar. Who knows though?

Have you seen one of the 'apology posts' from a real person? If seen them from random accounts and occasionally shared by identifiable real people but I suspect that they are actually Bot posts. For those who are desperate to find a Russian conspiracy that's were they should look. Not a "faked tests" and "picking on poor innocent girls who are too good (but also get beaten a lot)" the Russians have undoubtedly made hay with this whole shit show and I suspect all the contrite 'I was fooled by evil lies' posts have been paid for by Russia to further stir the pot..