Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

Not sure whether this is genuine, but on Twitter there is an indication that Khelif is filing a complaint of cyber harrassment! x.com/DZFOOTBALLDZ/status/1822329125970882929

To be fair, my housekeeper is his namesake, & is not a fan.

She doesn't think it's remotely funny, because she & her estranged husband are mid 20s, & she's been on the end of more than one male punch in the head so she's VERY much #nothankyou.

But generally, yeah, from what I've seen it's seen as a jolly jape & sticking one to the silly foreigners.

The 'lofted on shoulders' picture has been shared multiple times on groups I'm on - accompanied by many a PMSL type emoji.

Not even slightly surprised at this. They must be pissing themselves at western woke bros cheering this on

I live in a MENA country, but in the relatively Westernised, liberal capital. We're generally friendly with Algeria.

The things I've heard said are:

• how are the IOC this stupid? That boxer is clearly a man.
• well, plenty of Europeans are gullible/racist so can't tell our men & women apart/perverts/woke idiots/all of the above.
• meh, yalla Algeria, if they're going to let him fight. This is hilarious, good luck to him!
• <mothers of a local Olympian female athlete I know> but if he took up 'Mariam''s sport, he'd have to come through all of us AND Mariam's grandma, & she'd kick him in the balls.

LITERALLY NO ONE BELIEVES THAT IMANE KHELIF IS FEMALE.

@TheKeatingFive I guess - if we're wondering ways that they might not know - that their team may not give them the information themselves, don't want to fill their little lady brains with irrelevant info that could distract them from their best performance.

However, the way they interact with their team doesn't seem to suggest that kind of dysfunctional relationship (nor that their team see them as female in the first place!)

I suppose it is possible that men registered as and raised as female in their early years regard themselves as 'less than men' when they become aware that they are not 'normal' women.
I understand is that part of the reason many places with tend towards 'assigning' female in the case of genital ambiguity is because it's regarded as difficult to be a man without a penis.
But I can't swallow a line that involves the boxers have no idea. No one is putting a female in her late teens who has never had a period into a elite sports programme without a sense that something is wrong.

But how could they not be? There has been a question mark over this athlete's eligibility to compete since 2022.

They have done absolutely nothing to put the matter to bed. No appeals, no voluntary testing. How could you conclude anything other than deliberate cheating?

Perhaps I'm a hopeless optimist but I do think the athlete may not be a deliberate cheat

I'd love to have your faith, @thirdfiddle, and maybe I’m just old and cynical, but sadly I can’t dredge up the same optimism!

I think the power of self-delusion can be extremely strong. I'm not familiar with the cultures in which some of them grew up, which might support that delusion.

However, I'm not saying these people don't think of themselves as male, I'm saying they might not, but that actually makes no difference to the argument at hand.

Do you think that strong masculine female people allow people to have images taken with their hands on their chests? And without shirts while swimming with their school class?

That takes some kind explaing to oneself. Or more likely... they know they are male and follow male behavioural conventions.

I came across this video from an Algerian source. It's in a mixture of French and Arabic, so not very useful if you don't speak either, but it is still interesting, I think, from a body language and presentation point of view.

Maybe it's just me and the kind of women I've hung around with in my life, but at points in this video, I think Khelif wouldn't look out of place in certain lesbian bars, if there still were such things. Khelif has quite a quiet, gentle way of speaking, which may be a leftover from being brought up female. If I overheard them speaking, I wouldn't think it was a man. And what lovely eyes

So far, the Algerian media have done a fairly good job here in presenting Khelif as a nice, friendly, down-to-earth and very talented woman that Algeria can be proud of.
I'm thinking of how proud we were of Katie Taylor in similar circumstances. The hype, but also the genuine national pride, in a country that doesn't win much.
I get it.

Then they show footage of Khelif actually boxing, and it's so at odds with the interview! Khelif looks, hits, acts, moves like a man. It's like watching the interviewee's big brother in action.

The cognitive dissonance is off the scale for me, but the wall-to-wall hype and the excitement of having a successful 'female' Algerian Olympian, must outweigh the dissonance for Algerians. Well, most of them anyway, there must be some dissenters..

Imane is behaving in an unusual way for an Algerian woman. I would have expected more engrained reserve around men, from someone raised female in an Islamic country.

As someone upthread said, it's possible these boxers (and Semenya etc) think of themselves as some kind of special, strong masculine female. That has no bearing on whether they should compete against women who have not benefited from a male puberty.

The women's category is not for females and those who feel womany.

Have a look at the images of the Algerian Coaches etc and where they have put their hands on Khelif, and how Khelif has hugged heads to Khelif’s chest, been place on shoulders.

With all the description of the oppressiveness of the culture this person has been brought up in, the supposedly ultra conservativeness and all, how would any male treat a female in that way, and on international news streams. And how would any female allow that to happen.

Sorry. For the last week, those of us who have raised questions have been demonized, vilely vilified using the arguments that within 5 minutes of media streaming now seem like just a convenient way to silence others. Not you thirdfiddle at all. But so many have. But it cannot be both ways.

If Khelif was gaslit about Khelif’s medical condition, wouldn’t Khelif have a deep and abiding knowledge about what a female would allow and not? When I have seen a coach put a hand to Khelif’s chest at breast height, it was like seeing Semenya’s wife out a hand on Semenya’s chest in their wedding photo, it was like seeing a photo of teenaged Semenya on the beach in shorts at a school excursion, and Britney Greiner in a now public video in just shorts around a pool shooting hoops with family. These people know.

Perhaps I'm a hopeless optimist but I do think the athlete may not be a deliberate cheat.

How likely do you think it is that a woman would reach her 20s without every wondering why she'd passed through puberty but never menarche as part of that?

Thanks, that was just the one.

For a start, he was tested a good while ago now, had the results, had the option to appeal but dropped that appeal.

If I'm right and Khelif is being gaslit, that's easily got around. "Oh the IBA use a completely out of date definition that just works by chromosomes, some women are born XY, don't worry about it the IOC are more enlightened."

Also not convinced from one or two photos of rucked up clothing that the athlete has certain parts. Looking down and there's a bump in my trousers right now. It's just where the material's folded, I don't have anything unusual down there and have given birth twice. And if Khelif is wearing a female groin guard that could cause funny shapes too.

Perhaps I'm a hopeless optimist but I do think the athlete may not be a deliberate cheat.

https://x.com/bettinablancoRD/status/1822043396812296403

Hope this works. It was a reply to that idiot mp.

@theilltemperedclavecinist · Today 09:18

Spotted on X...

Could you link that, please? I'd like to retweet it.

The focus on Khelif’s femininity, or lack of, is what’s giving the cheerleaders ammunition - they can say K is being bullied by nasty cruel bigots. The focus should instead be on the IOC, the lack of robust testing and the lack of concern for women’s sport and women’s safety. Bring back the swab test, 82% of women said they wanted it, there was never any reason to scrap it. Having a cheek swab to determine your sex is arguably less degrading than hopping on to the scales to determine your weight.

We cannot have anyone with male biological advantage in women’s boxing. It is as insane as it is irresponsible.

FlippinFumin · Today 09:29

I am just going to have a quick look to see if she tweeted anything when Nicola Adams won gold for Team GB.

I couldn't find anything from her, but this was to her:

https://x.com/Chris1966/status/1819371991763169534

If a biologically female athlete with the xx chromosome tested for the levels of testosterone as males with the xy chromosome they would be banned for doping. Nicola Adams who fought for the right to box in the Olympics as a female athlete. She has condemned what is happening. Be more like Nicola

I agree . Though the pictures of him in make up seem more like the artist formerly known as Prince- about a chic aesthetic- rather than femininity. Though perhaps different pictures as I don’t do instagram.

People are saying all sorts of things many of which aren’t true. I’m not lending any credibility to the penis photos as it’s so easy to manipulate them. I’m confident in the evidence of my own eyes looking at the post bout celebrations and reading the sex of the individual hoisted aloft, plus the running photos on his own instagram account, the sitting with legs akimbo photos…….I find the fact that he has occasionally worn makeup in order to appear more female when it’s suited a specific purpose to be evidence of deliberate obfuscation rather than a sincere identity. It’s irrelevant anyway, men shouldn’t be in the women’s category however they identify and irrespective of the circumstances underpinning that identity.

Just seen the most beautiful reel on the bbc sport website.
Women's beach volleyball kicking off and then the DJ plays 'Imagine' and peace is restored.
It makes me realise how amazing real women are after all the ugliness of the boxing.
Have a look.