Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

What I found with that interview, is that he's attempted to tie up some of the loose ends in the evidence, eg he says Khelif signed for the results of the IBA test because Khelif doesn't understand English. It's almost like he's been reading people's objections online and made a point of answering them.

Georges Cazorla must have been given permission for this interview as this has exposed much more than the IBA and he must be well aware of the threats of legal action.

I've never forgotten the comments from French medics in re: the vaginal mesh scandal and what it revealed about their attitude to women.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/31/vaginal-mesh-complications-too-severe-to-be-inflicted-on-patients-court-told

argh

If he complained that he couldn't get pregnant would you investigate or pat him on the head and tell him not to be so daft? it's pretty simple.

women have the bodies we do so we can gestate babies. yes for some of us our bodies don't cooperate, but we still have that type of body for that reason. fuck me but people like to make simple things complicated

“After the 2023 World Championships, where she was disqualified, I took the lead by contacting a renowned endocrinologist from the Parisian University Hospital, Kremlin-Bicêtre, who examined her. He confirmed that Imane is indeed a woman, despite her karyotype and her testosterone level. He said: "There is a problem with her hormones, with her chromosomes, but she is a woman." That's all that mattered to us.”

Absence of fully formed male genitalia = not a man = “is indeed a woman”. That’s all they seem to need to justify it to themselves.

Interesting comment from Lin in this article “I was invited to compete by the IOC”. Suggests the IOC approached the boxer rather than the boxer’s national body approaching the IOC.

If the IOC did invite Lin, this would be Indicative of how men’s the drive for ‘inclusivity’ is so willing, even happy, to throw women under the bus and to exclude them. Even so, that motivation also seems happy to drag Lin back in an uncomfortable spotlight.

We see the misogyny in play here.

eatfigs
https://www.lepoint.fr/sport/exclusif-jo-2024-imane-khelif-a-ete-aneantie-de-decouvrir-d-un-seul-coup-qu-elle-pourrait-ne-pas-etre-une-fille-09-08-2024-2567609_26.php
Machine translation below ...

Thank you so much for this, eatfigs, I think this is one of the most valuable posts on this topic. There are so many admissions, it's unbelievable. The whole thing pivots around 'we want this boxer to be considered female and we want them to get a gold medal for Algeria at the Paris Olympics'. Everything else is irrelevant.

The Imane Khelif who was famously 'beaten by women in the past and therefore doesn't have an advantage' is not the same IK who has been through this multidisciplinary process of maximising their physical strength and ability.

This has been a huge and expensive mobilisation of so many different organisations and individuals to get Khelif the gold medal. I've posted before: what now? Semenya managed to compete as a female athlete for years, and pocketed a small fortune in prize money, so she was of continued financial value to her backers/entourage.
I don't think amateur boxing is as lucrative as athletics, and if Khelif turns pro, as Katie Taylor did very successfully, I doubt if professional women boxers will be as compliant as the women Khelif and Lin have beaten at the Olympics.

There was a complete industry set up around Khelif, and I get the feeling that Khelif was just raw material to be processed into a medal-winner, at whatever cost to sport, the truth, the women beaten along the way, or even Khelif themselves.

Isn't it amazing that there is no advantage to any of this but yet out of 6 womens boxing categories at the Olympics 2 of them were won by those with DSD's so 1/3 of gold medals were won by people with a condition that effects 0.018% and we're supposed to pretend that there is no advantage

And, in the 2016 Olympics, all the podium places in the women's 800m went to competitors with VSDs.

Never mind playing Imagine to pour oil on the troubled waters of the women's volleyball (?), the IOC should have mandated it for thee medal ceremonies.

The banner at the boxing. All these images including the big XX montage come from an X account called ‘Total Titter’ btw 😉

Not to disrespect the runners up, but...

In competitions that proceed by knock-out tournament, fielding candidates like this distorts the entire competition. For all we know, the best woman boxer was the one that he beat in the very first round.

We make sport interesting to watch by creating a tightly clustered field of athletes of very similar ability. So why aren't sports enthusiasts complaining about women's boxing being made more boring?

I fear it may be because some are more interested in the sadistic spectacle than the sport.

Just seen a tweet from Sex Matters with a bit of film of a brave woman in the boxing arena brandishing an X X banner - I think before last night’s bout, though not sure - lots of cheers and applause for her.

Also this image:

An interesting comparison from Jennifer on X:

' In the women’s boxing division only Lin Yu Ting (57kg) and Imane Khelif (66 kg) won every single match 5-0 on their way to gold. Their respective records were 5-0, 5-0, 5-0, 5-0. The women who won the other weight divisions in comparison:'

Li Quan (75 kg) Gold. 5-0, 4-1, 5-0, 4-1.
Wu Yu (50kg) Gold. 5-0, 5-0, 4-1, 4-1.
Chang Yuan (54kg) Gold. 5-0, 4-1, 3-2, 5-0.
Kellie Harrington (60kg) Gold 5-0, 5-0, 4-1, 4–1.

This shows you what a remarkable feat it was for Lin and Khelif to go 5-0 in every fight.'

https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1822513406081212832

I wish there had been an Avi Silverberg who legally changed their passport to F and then entered the games to prove the point that the F in the passport means nothing.

Edited to add how upsetting that photo is and how clearly it demonstrates the physical differences.

"Thanks to Lin’s extra reach, Szeremeta was left bloody and bruised by the fight".

I haven't watched this last fight yet, but judging from the attached from that article I don't think I can bear to watch it.

Khelif and representatives seem to have choosen the role of poster “girl” and have framed the experience in a Caster light. I just see this as astute marketing. The talk is on Khelif because that is what Khelif wants. Even the threat of legal action happened to keep the spotlight on Khelif not Lin

The renowned endocrinologist will have looked at “her” passport, as is customary.

😃 well I admit I couldn’t bring myself to watch the fights in their entirety so I can’t say which boxer is the least shit. But I did see a slow-mo clip of the illegal manoeuvre by Lin and thought it was horrible and should not have gone unpunished by the ref.

All the attention is on Khelif though. I doubt K would have got away with a rabbit punch, not with the public watching so closely.

That's exactly how it's played out on Radio 4 Zeugma. There was coverage of Khelif, then pretty much crickets over Lin, except that Lin has been getting an incidental mention when the next part of the story, Khelif's legal action, is reported.

Although Lin also gets mentioned when the "brave overcoming of the controversy" narrative gets wheeled out by the BBC.

Gold for second gender-row boxer as Imane Khelif alleges ‘harassment’.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/728eb29e-77a5-477c-b61e-e04c5945cded?shareToken=369d6b362012464800da7d80780ea1c1

Interesting comment from Lin in this article “I was invited to compete by the IOC”.
Suggests the IOC approached the boxer rather than the boxer’s national body approaching the IOC.
If that is the correct inference, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.

I said not a shit boxer, rather than a good boxer. But maybe Lin is a good a boxer as I am at articulating my point properly 😆

I wonder whether messing with a perfectly normal endocrine system like this is actually healthy for the person.

It’s probably been quite useful for Lin in terms of Khelif keeping the attention well away. Just goes to show how crap the media coverage is - they’re interested only in the ‘story’ of the Khelif narrative so they practically ignore the much bigger, overarching scandal that’s right in front of their noses.

There's odd framing of the scandal on the BBC. They're going for the line of "the two boxers were able to win gold in spite of the controversy" as though it was an unfair obstacle put in their way by others that they managed to overcome through grit and determination. When it was the cause of the controversy that was exactly the thing that gifted the gold medals to Khelif and Lin.

Lin a good boxer? The one who threw illegal punches to the back of the head while their opponent’s throat was on the ropes?

why is everyone only talking about Khelif?

For me, Khelif stands out more because he's a shit boxer, ridiculously arrogant and it seems there is more info out there on him. Lin seems not to be a shit boxer (in terms of technique). And he doesn't seem to be such an arrogant shit.