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Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

743 replies

Signalbox · 10/08/2024 07:53

To continue the discussion...

Thread 3

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5135868-thread-3-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Thread 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5133749-thread-2-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?utmm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes” | Mumsnet

Surely this cannot be true. In boxing of all sports. I thought boxing had told men they needed to compete with other men? *”Two athletes competing at...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
67
KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 11/08/2024 20:52

Women. Can’t tell them apart. They’re so alike. Interchangeable.

WomaninBoots · 11/08/2024 20:49

Runningupthecurtains · 11/08/2024 20:45

I've just had the misfortune to see a Facebook post (from a random account that Facebook chose to show me rather than my actual friends and family) comparing Khelif to Princess Diana 🤢 (who according to the post 'she looks a lot like').

Same.

It's the head tilt what makes us female, ladies. And apparently also identical.

Maerchentante · 11/08/2024 20:46

Runningupthecurtains · 11/08/2024 20:45

I've just had the misfortune to see a Facebook post (from a random account that Facebook chose to show me rather than my actual friends and family) comparing Khelif to Princess Diana 🤢 (who according to the post 'she looks a lot like').

I think that case is so hopeless, not even going to Specsavers will help.

Zeugma · 11/08/2024 20:46

Runningupthecurtains · 11/08/2024 20:45

I've just had the misfortune to see a Facebook post (from a random account that Facebook chose to show me rather than my actual friends and family) comparing Khelif to Princess Diana 🤢 (who according to the post 'she looks a lot like').

Oh yes, I've seen that too, Running, but on X. It’s just unbelievable really.

Runningupthecurtains · 11/08/2024 20:45

I've just had the misfortune to see a Facebook post (from a random account that Facebook chose to show me rather than my actual friends and family) comparing Khelif to Princess Diana 🤢 (who according to the post 'she looks a lot like').

Maerchentante · 11/08/2024 20:41

Watching the Closing Ceremony on a German channel, when IK came in the reporter was basically gaslighting anyone with eyes in their heads by saying "The woman, about whom so much false information has been spread" or something to the extent.

viques · 11/08/2024 20:22

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:21

Such a rare thing, these DSDs.

Ah, you are making the reasonable mistake of looking at the proportion of people with DSD in the general population, which is of course extremely low. However, if you look at people with DSD who inadvertently choose to be professional athletes then by some extraordinary quirk of statistics the proportion changes quite remarkably. The phrase “ Lies, damn lies and statistics” springs to mind!

biddyboo · 11/08/2024 20:20

This stat from the BBC article is interesting

"World Athletics has claimed that while "approximately 1 in 20,000 of the general population have a 46 XY DSD, in elite women's competition, the proportion is approximately 7 in 1,000 - a prevalence that is 140 times higher". It argued that "this is strong evidence of a performance advantage".

It really highlights what an issue this is in women's sport.

Zeugma · 11/08/2024 20:18

And everyone's tripping on the carpet 🤦‍♀️

BigBadaBoom · 11/08/2024 20:17

Good to see another no-nonsense sportsperson pointing out what should be obvious. It's ironic how many of those who vocally ridicule anti-vaxers and climate change deniers are now using the same kinds of straw-man arguments, social media conspiracy theory tactics and science-distorting tricks of their political enemies. The Horseshoe Theory of politics gets more justification with every passing day.

Zeugma · 11/08/2024 20:12

Well this closing ceremony isn’t awkward at all.

Chewbecca · 11/08/2024 20:02

Go Matty P! Thank you!

Zeugma · 11/08/2024 19:58

Hoorah for Matthew

AlecTrevelyan006 · 11/08/2024 19:49

Pinsent speaks - don't know if the BBC knew he was going to say but it was pretty cool

https://x.com/AbsMcFabs/status/1822705427810779273

x.com

https://x.com/AbsMcFabs/status/1822705427810779273

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 11/08/2024 19:48

What did he say - I'm not by a tv and can't watch on my phone?

viques · 11/08/2024 19:46

CaptainBolt · 11/08/2024 19:42

I fist pumped when he was speaking! My partner said "Well he won't be back!"

Show quote history

Wasn’t he brilliant. Laid the blame firmly at the IOC, said it clearly that fairness and inclusion don’t work in sport. I heart you Matthew.

Helleofabore · 11/08/2024 19:46

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:06

That BBC article was overall pretty good, I thought. Yes the IOC show themselves up.

I didn't know this - paragraph below from that article.

Several top sprinters have also been affected by the sport’s restrictions on DSD athletes, which now cover all track and field events in the female category. Namibia's Christine Mboma, who 200m silver in Tokyo, and compatriot Beatrice Masilingi have both been affected by the rule change. They along with 11 others had to miss the World Championships in Budapest last year under the new rules requiring DSD athletes competing in previously unrestricted events to suppress their testosterone levels for at least six months before returning to competition.

The numbers - Mboma, Masilingi plus ELEVEN others had to miss the World Championships, and that's just in the events that weren't already restricted.

Make a loophole, people are going to jump through it.

11! That is huge.

CaptainBolt · 11/08/2024 19:42

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:39

Just watched Matthew Pinsent on BBC coverage.
He gets it.

I fist pumped when he was speaking! My partner said "Well he won't be back!"

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:39

Just watched Matthew Pinsent on BBC coverage.
He gets it.

duc748 · 11/08/2024 19:30

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:21

Such a rare thing, these DSDs.

One in 20,000 so they say. It's uncanny, isn't it?

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 11/08/2024 19:27

Gorgonemilezola · 11/08/2024 18:46

'There are many women with higher testosterone levels than men....'

From the BBC piece linked above, said by an IOC spokesman.

Load of cobblers.

Well, yes, it's nonsense.

Reposting this from thread 2 on this topic.

I'd offer this study of Female Elite Warfighters (FEW) as a comparable, comparative group. You can see the comparative testosterone levels etc. there and read the discussion of comparison to levels of lean body mass, body fat levels etc.

One stereotype of FEW has been that they represent virilized female outliers, but this was clearly not the case. Serum androgen values were within normal ranges (0.4–2.0 nmol·L−1), below typical androgenization syndromes, such as polycystic ovary syndrome and congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and well below the 5 nmol·L−1 serum testosterone limit for female Olympic athletes (31,32). The androgens, SHBG, and serum lipids were comparable to values reported for female athletes (20,33,34). None of these women qualified for metabolic syndrome by the measured parameters measured in this study (serum lipids, SHBG, BMI, waist circumference, and serum androgens) (35).

McClung HL, Spiering BA, Bartlett PM, Walker LA, Lavoie EM, Sanford DP, Friedl KE. Physical and Physiological Characterization of Female Elite Warfighters. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2022 Sep 1;54(9):1527-1533. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0000000000002942. Epub 2022 May 27. PMID: 35621397; PMCID: PMC9390221.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9390221/

Physical and Physiological Characterization of Female Elite Warfighters

This study characterized a sample of the first women to complete elite United States (US) military training.Twelve female graduates of the US Army Ranger Course and one of the first Marine Corps Infantry Officers Course graduates participated in 3 d of...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9390221/#bib32

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:21

Such a rare thing, these DSDs.

Plasmodesmata · 11/08/2024 19:20

From the link in the article above:
Coe said this will impact 13 DSD athletes, seven (55%) of whom compete in running events above a mile, with six (45%) in sprinting events below 400m.

Zeugma · 11/08/2024 19:18

Eleven others?

Wow.

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