Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733607/Imane-Khelif-gender-boxer-olympics-chromosomes.html

Daily Mail have reported on the interview in Le Monde.

In passing, I note that Le Monde is all about the poor traduced female, complete with the usual JKR, Donald Trump, far-right memes. But surprised by that, I thought LM was pretty centrist-conservative. Dunno how typical that is of the French press.

www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/08/09/paris-olympics-the-disinformation-campaign-against-algerian-boxer-imane-khelif_6712033_8.html

I mean, don’t get me wrong, if it led to Khelif having to take a test and the results published for all to see, I’d be there for it.

Surely the test is 'I've experienced hurty feelings because people have been mean to me'? IANAL but there was a whole discussion about this on this or another thread. I’ll see if I can find it.

Well, the harassment was for not being a woman in a woman's competition...it'll come up, surely?

Taking a legal challenge against harassment is a pretty big step though and could so easily go wrong for Khelif?

It may have been on another thread, sorry, I can’t remember now as there are so many comments - but someone pointed out that the legal action (if it happens) is for harassment. Not for saying Khelif isn’t a woman. A significant distinction.

Much more prudent, and I wouldn't be surprised if this legal action is quietly put on the back-burner.

would suggest it’s vanishingly unlikely that, at this point...

……that Khelif is suddenly going to cough, in front of cameras, to the whole thing being one enormous con

@Zeugma
Taking a legal challenge against harassment is a pretty big step though and could so easily go wrong for Khelif?

Wouldn't it be more prudent to stay quiet and say nothing if you really thought you were in the wrong?

Imane suffers a health condition that precludes her fighting women.

Many people lose their ability to compete at elite level due to health conditions.

Like pregnancy, among others.

eatfigs
... about Caster Semenya:

Britain's Daily Mirror went so far as to point out her name is an anagram for the phrase: "A secret man? Yes."

Goodness, that's unfortunate!

What an amazing woman.

Khelif told a press conference after winning her medal: 'I am a woman like any woman. I was born a woman and I have lived as a woman but there are enemies to success and they can't digest my success.'
She later added: 'All that is being said about me on social media is immoral. I want to change the minds of people around the world.'

Would Khelif do this if she didn't really identify as a woman??

I would suggest it’s vanishingly unlikely that, at this point, having

• Competed 'as a woman'
• Won a gold medal 'as a woman'
• Become a national heroine 'as a woman'
• Looking to monetise all the above as much as possible
• having apparently issued legal proceedings for ‘harassment'
• Having a very professional French/American/Algerian team pushing very hard
• Being endorsed by the Algerian head of the African sports body….

……that Khelif is suddenly going to cough, in front of cameras, to the whole thing being one enormous con.

There will be somebody who agrees to fight.

I was looking up Barbara Buttrick (British woman who was first World Champion in Women's Boxing, 1957) and came across this brief news piece from June '24.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxeelmvyd9go

In other write-ups, they heavily emphasise that because women's boxing opportunities were so limited in the UK/Europe, she had to train with men and needed to fight exhibition bouts with them (she moved to the US for some time and seems to have trained at the same gym as Ali).

As ever; follow the money

Yes, even there you get plonkers doing the Be Kind rubbish.

Has anyone seen this picture of the poor delicate little flower? I saw it on another Ovarit thread.

I didn't read your reply to me as snippy at all. :)

Definitely misunderstood, I was simply saying that because FWR isn't what I'd call radfem, and MNHQ far from it.

Khelif started boxing at 17. I can't believe there wouldn't be a suspicion of something awry at that point, when no menstruation had occurred.

That's true too of course.
I hope no other woman fights against Khelif!

Biological facts can be complicated in DSDs...and we don't know exactly what condition Khelif has. But XY plus high testosterone plus musculature, reach etc taken together do seem to imply the boxer has been through male puberty (which is not always the case in XY DSDs btw).

I don't think Khelif should have been allowed take part but I'm more uncomfortable with the name-calling. Her beliefs around her identify as well as education levels are relevant to whether she believed she was cheating or not.

The IOC on the other hand...

@Outofitagain

Would Khelif do this if she didn't really identify as a woman??

If he doesn't continue the charade his career as a boxer is over. If he can convince women to box against him he still has a chance of earning some money, which is a big motivator.

Remember Khelif is currently surrounded by a bunch of people who literally financially benefit from Khelif being classed as female.

Wouldn't that suggest very poor psychological and social support though?

Biology doesn't stop existing because of how Khelif identifies.

Would the scientists, the IBA, the WBO and the coach still say XY if Khelief has a DSD? Surely his coach would try to muddy the waters even more by mentioning an X chromosome? But always it has just been XY.

It's the Y that's the issue. That's why it gets talked about - it's a DSD in someone with a Y chromosome. Mentioning the X is irrelevant, and certainly saying 'but she has an X' as a defence is pointless. Everyone has an X. It's impossible for.the fetus to develop without one.

Would Khelif do this if she didn't really identify as a woman??

Identity is irrelevant. Everyone in Imane's team, including Imane, knows the biological facts.

anyone listened to the twitter space with sharron davies last night?