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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex and Gender are NOT the fucking same!

40 replies

ScaredMyBossMightBeOnMN · 07/08/2024 13:04

I am aware of an incident at my work where a patient attended for a Bone scan.
Male and female bone density is different, particularly after the menopause, and there is a Male referral form and a Female one.

A patient was referred on the Male referral form with all markers on their health records referring to them as Male. The patient did not volunteer the information that they were born female but did say that they were on testosterone injections.

It was noted after they had gone home that somewhere in the notes it referenced that they were transgender and were contacted to confirm this and asses their pregnancy status. Their scan results then had to recalibrated using female bone density values.

Every indicator of a Patient’s sex in their medical records is actually their ‘gender identity’ not sex, even though it actually states Patient Sex.

It’s bloody madness as blood values are different as well. I feel complicit in this nonsense but am too scared to challenge.

I know the answer to this situation is that the radiographers will be admonished for not being ‘inclusive’ and will have to check the pregnancy status of all male patients in future, as they have previously been advised to do.

The logical solution would be for us to record both sex AND gender of patients.They could be referred to and accommodated, according to their gender identity but receive appropriate clinical care for their sex.

OP posts:
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SinnerBoy · 09/08/2024 20:13

I've just had a survey from the Passport Office, which asked my gender. I replied:

I am male, I don't have a gender identity, I'm just a male.

I was probably pissing in the wind, of course - and I couldn't screen shot the entire box.

Sex and Gender are NOT the fucking same!
RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/08/2024 16:05

RandySavage · 07/08/2024 14:36

CautiosLurker

Next time your husband is asked if he could be pregnant he should reply:

”I don’t know. I had unprotected sex recently. Is there a test we could do?”. I’d love to know how they’d proceed from there.

I wish I could remember or come up with this sort of thing. "I have had unprotected sex every now and then with my wife, do you think I should do a pregnancy test?" Even if I was female, I'd be a bit past getting pregnant. A pregnant woman my age would be in all the papers. And a pregnant man ...

changedusernameforthis1 · 08/08/2024 14:00

I honestly think that when it comes to serious issues like health care, sex trumps gender every time. It's just common sense.
My sex is down as female on my NHS record. But if, for example, I'm asked my gender on a form for a holiday I'm booking, then I'll put male or, on the rare occasion I see it, transgender male.
I have also not changed the gender marker on my drivers license because if I were missing and found hurt, it could help save my life (unless of course, I'm naked and then my sex will be quite apparent).

Catsmere · 07/08/2024 23:05

It shows Hanlon's razor doesn't really apply, doesn't it? Both malevolence and stupidity are at play here.

FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2024 21:48

GrumpyPanda · 07/08/2024 21:21

Good. Men being annoyed by this is the only way this shit will ever change.

Absolutely true. I'm disappointed with the medical profession though. If the senior doctors had all stood together at the beginning and said no, we wouldn't be in this situation.

GrumpyPanda · 07/08/2024 21:21

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2024 15:58

Family member who is a doctor describes male patients, being asked if they may be pregnant, being confused, upset, angry and disturbed.

But that's fine, I guess, so long as we're 'inclusive'.

Good. Men being annoyed by this is the only way this shit will ever change.

FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2024 21:12

HoppityBun · 07/08/2024 20:15

I think it’s even worse than that, OP. I have autoimmune conditions and I occasionally read around for research papers. Almost invariably the scientists write “gender” when they mean “sex”. That sometimes gives the literal implication that if I self-identified into the opposite sex, my risk factors would change.

Exactly, it's misleading. Unfortunately I'm certain that if they wrote "sex" the papers would all be rejected.
As I mentioned upthread, any data they use from the Department of Health uses only gender, not sex. So they have to say gender anyway - sex isn't recorded.

TheKeatingFive · 07/08/2024 20:17

Sex is genuinely important for healthcare purposes.

Gender is as relevant as star signs or MyersBriggs profiles. I.e. not at all.

We are being governed by clowns

HoppityBun · 07/08/2024 20:15

I think it’s even worse than that, OP. I have autoimmune conditions and I occasionally read around for research papers. Almost invariably the scientists write “gender” when they mean “sex”. That sometimes gives the literal implication that if I self-identified into the opposite sex, my risk factors would change.

ScaredMyBossMightBeOnMN · 07/08/2024 20:11

If a patient volunteers the information I can enable their privacy and dignity and others is maintained. Like ensuring the female changing room was empty before showing a 6 foot 4 TIM where to change.

If I could see that the sex and gender were different it could avoid embarrassing the trans individual as we’d just know.

OP posts:
MoveToParis · 07/08/2024 20:02

Chersfrozenface · 07/08/2024 13:22

Actually, I'm really looking forward to my #BeKind husband being asked if he could be pregnant.

Or when he last had a smear or that he needs a mammogram?

ScaredMyBossMightBeOnMN · 07/08/2024 19:59

PinkPurpleHibiscus8 · 07/08/2024 19:30

They should only ask about sex. "Gender identity" is irrelevent.

That’s my point!

A patient referral to our NHS trust comes in from the GP, as was the case with the bone scan patient wit the patient’s ‘sex’ already completed, we then register them on our patient administration system where information is shared on the National Spine.

The patient is thereafter described as being of that sex, it’s only considered of relevance when under talking radiology procedures when pregnancy status needs to established. No one is required to check before doing a blood test or allocating a patient a bed on a ward.

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 07/08/2024 19:46

quixote9 · 07/08/2024 19:44

Reminds me of seeing the transwoman who sent in a DNA sample to 23andme. It came back with a Y chromosome in the results. (I know. Duh. ...) The post was the transwoman being indignant that they weren't inclusive or some such, and what did one have to do to get a proper gene scan around here?

Some things, you're just dumbstruck. Like Feynman said, they're so far away from getting it, they're not even wrong.

😂

Snowypeaks · 07/08/2024 19:46

PinkPurpleHibiscus8 · 07/08/2024 19:30

They should only ask about sex. "Gender identity" is irrelevent.

I agree.
The questions should be -

  1. Sex - M/F?
  2. Are you taking cross-sex hormones/medication?

Because those are the clinically important factors. The identity doesn't matter a jot.

quixote9 · 07/08/2024 19:44

Reminds me of seeing the transwoman who sent in a DNA sample to 23andme. It came back with a Y chromosome in the results. (I know. Duh. ...) The post was the transwoman being indignant that they weren't inclusive or some such, and what did one have to do to get a proper gene scan around here?

Some things, you're just dumbstruck. Like Feynman said, they're so far away from getting it, they're not even wrong.

PinkPurpleHibiscus8 · 07/08/2024 19:30

They should only ask about sex. "Gender identity" is irrelevent.

ScaredMyBossMightBeOnMN · 07/08/2024 19:23

HCPs could be under or over prescribing unknowingly. I doubt any of them want to do that.

OP posts:
Snowypeaks · 07/08/2024 18:57

I get what you're saying, Octavon, but it's the HCPs who will be in trouble if something goes wrong.

Not to mention how the HCPs will feel if there is some sort of medical disaster involving their patient.

Octavon · 07/08/2024 18:53

This sounds like a problem for the person whose medical record is incorrect. Not a problem for the rest of us. In which case I’m unsure why we should care? They’re only causing a problem for themselves.

Littlewhingingfucker · 07/08/2024 18:48

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2024 15:58

Family member who is a doctor describes male patients, being asked if they may be pregnant, being confused, upset, angry and disturbed.

But that's fine, I guess, so long as we're 'inclusive'.

Could you ask them why I haven't been called for my prostate exam yet?

Snowypeaks · 07/08/2024 17:56

RandySavage · 07/08/2024 14:36

CautiosLurker

Next time your husband is asked if he could be pregnant he should reply:

”I don’t know. I had unprotected sex recently. Is there a test we could do?”. I’d love to know how they’d proceed from there.

😂
Brilliant!

WearyLady · 07/08/2024 17:05

Is there really a need to amend NHS systems to record both sex and gender? I'm sure I read somewhere that sex is inherent in the NHS number with
females having an even number and males having an odd number (or vice versa). If that's the case, then the sex/gender field can be used for gender identity and sex can be determined by noting the NHS number. The change required is just to stop giving people a completely new health record when they transition.

Chersfrozenface · 07/08/2024 16:06

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2024 15:58

Family member who is a doctor describes male patients, being asked if they may be pregnant, being confused, upset, angry and disturbed.

But that's fine, I guess, so long as we're 'inclusive'.

Perhaps a couple of minutes explaining why this question has to be asked might open a few male eyes to NHS genderist idiocy.

As well as calming down confused, upset, angry and disturbed reactions

A win-win, I would say

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2024 16:00

OuterSpaceCadet · 07/08/2024 15:10

OF COURSE the answer is separate sex and gender ID categories.

Just as the answer to another pressing issue is "run the sex tests yourself, then".

But I'm beginning to realise that inclusion wasn't really the aim. The obfuscation is deliberate, right?

NHS records already have a field to record gender ID, plus one to record sex, as I understand it.

But they choose to only record the former, for some reason.

I've also recently read that if you 'change gender' your entire medical record is wiped and a new, blank record created.

https://www.redhousesurgery.nhs.uk/patient-information/name-and-or-gender-changes-on-your-medical-record/

'You can request a new medical record in your preferred gender identity; NHS will then close your current medical record and issue you with a new NHS number, and a new medical record.
Your new medical record will be completely blank, with none of your previous medical history, COVID vaccinations, medication etc. saved onto it. '

apple-touch-icon-precomposed

Name and/or Gender Changes on your Medical Record - The Red House Surgery

We are very happy to assist with name and/or gender changes on your medical record, but please be aware of the following information. If you wish to change your name and/or title on your medical…

https://www.redhousesurgery.nhs.uk/patient-information/name-and-or-gender-changes-on-your-medical-record

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2024 15:58

Family member who is a doctor describes male patients, being asked if they may be pregnant, being confused, upset, angry and disturbed.

But that's fine, I guess, so long as we're 'inclusive'.

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