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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian article- disgusting euphemism of the systematic rape of 1400 children

135 replies

Heylo · 06/08/2024 08:32

I read this article last night and I am livid. She discusses the riots in Rotherham. She mentions ‘a town with past tensions’. She makes no mention of the systematic and paedophilic rape of 1400 children.

classic guardian, don’t talk about it and don’t report it if it doesn’t fit the narrative.

I can’t wait for this women hating, gay people hating, MRM loving rag to bankrupt.

here’s the article below. Pls consider writing into complain. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/05/a-dark-day-anger-in-rotherham-after-riot-at-hotel-housing-asylum-seekers

‘A dark day’: anger in Rotherham after riot at hotel housing asylum seekers

Residents attempt clean-up after far-right mob attacked police, smashed windows and tried to set building on fire

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/05/a-dark-day-anger-in-rotherham-after-riot-at-hotel-housing-asylum-seekers

OP posts:
CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 18:02

aladderformoths · 08/08/2024 17:44

Well, from reading this thread it seems like one of the many adverse ill effects of these riots is that people are again associating those concerned about the targeting of non-Muslim girls by a minority sub-set of pakistani-Muslim origin men (which is ongoing) with racists.

We need the honesty to recognise that human behaviours happen, and are shaped, by social and cultural contexts, and this is true of sexual offending behaviour too. Isn't this why the rise of social media and online interconnectivity and online violent misogynistic pornography ( which seems to be nearly all of it) is so concerning? Because it creates a culture which normalises male sexual arousal at abuse of women. It allows men to get together and socially bond over fantasises of hurting women ( the man who was planning to kidnap Holly W was part of such an online group who shared their fantasies of abducting and raping women). Cultures can either reduce the likelihood of men harming women or increase the likelihood of men harming women.

From an analysis I read, the location of the grooming gangs coincides with areas where rural Pakistani immigrants settled. The grooming gangs have not appeared in areas where urban, more educated Pakistani Muslims tended to settle. In other words, it seems like there was something about the culture/ attitude of these particular populations that led a minority of the men there on the path to become offenders.

I went to school in the West Midlands in an area where the grooming gangs operated. My (white) friend was recruited to become the 'girlfriend' of a Muslim man by her Hindu friend who had a Muslim 'boyfriend'. They were both 14. Except they were not girlfriends as the men would never be seen in public with them but picked them up and took them back to a flat to have sex with them. The man my friend was having sex with told her that he would never do this a Muslim woman as he would have too much respect for her. He clearly saw his behaviour within a cultural-religious context. Now as far as I know, the treatment of my friend did not reach the awful levels reported by the poor girls reported in the press. But these were still men preying on under age school girls. I never asked the age of these men and have always assumed they were young adult men. If so, I suspect part of the reason for their behaviour was that they could not access women in their own community for sex coupled with their personal religious-cultural beliefs that gave them a lack of respect for non-Muslim women. The old misogynistic good women/bad women narrative as expressed through their cultural narrative.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that we need to have a good analysis of a problem before we can start to form a solution. We need to be honest about the factors that lead certain men, or any ethnicity or community - geographic/ cultural or community of interest - to harm women, so that we can target effective solutions at those groups to reduce the risk of their offending.

Could you share where you read this as it seems like a huge generalisation?
And bear in mind that research has shown its not possible to link these crimes to a particular ethnicity. The Daily Mail were forced to print an apology and withdraw Suella Braverman's comments when she wrote and article saying similar to what you just have.

One way to ensure you are discussing a valid concern rather than being influenced by prejudice is to check the evidence. Anything stereotypical (x community does y) I'd check the data carefully.

With male violence it's obvious and overwhelmingly backed by statistics. With this kind of ethnic stereotype, it often isn't.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 17:54

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 16:54

But not arrested?

See above link. Yes, arrested. And suspended. And his language called out as totally unacceptable.

Great response from all involved imo.

aladderformoths · 08/08/2024 17:44

Well, from reading this thread it seems like one of the many adverse ill effects of these riots is that people are again associating those concerned about the targeting of non-Muslim girls by a minority sub-set of pakistani-Muslim origin men (which is ongoing) with racists.

We need the honesty to recognise that human behaviours happen, and are shaped, by social and cultural contexts, and this is true of sexual offending behaviour too. Isn't this why the rise of social media and online interconnectivity and online violent misogynistic pornography ( which seems to be nearly all of it) is so concerning? Because it creates a culture which normalises male sexual arousal at abuse of women. It allows men to get together and socially bond over fantasises of hurting women ( the man who was planning to kidnap Holly W was part of such an online group who shared their fantasies of abducting and raping women). Cultures can either reduce the likelihood of men harming women or increase the likelihood of men harming women.

From an analysis I read, the location of the grooming gangs coincides with areas where rural Pakistani immigrants settled. The grooming gangs have not appeared in areas where urban, more educated Pakistani Muslims tended to settle. In other words, it seems like there was something about the culture/ attitude of these particular populations that led a minority of the men there on the path to become offenders.

I went to school in the West Midlands in an area where the grooming gangs operated. My (white) friend was recruited to become the 'girlfriend' of a Muslim man by her Hindu friend who had a Muslim 'boyfriend'. They were both 14. Except they were not girlfriends as the men would never be seen in public with them but picked them up and took them back to a flat to have sex with them. The man my friend was having sex with told her that he would never do this a Muslim woman as he would have too much respect for her. He clearly saw his behaviour within a cultural-religious context. Now as far as I know, the treatment of my friend did not reach the awful levels reported by the poor girls reported in the press. But these were still men preying on under age school girls. I never asked the age of these men and have always assumed they were young adult men. If so, I suspect part of the reason for their behaviour was that they could not access women in their own community for sex coupled with their personal religious-cultural beliefs that gave them a lack of respect for non-Muslim women. The old misogynistic good women/bad women narrative as expressed through their cultural narrative.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that we need to have a good analysis of a problem before we can start to form a solution. We need to be honest about the factors that lead certain men, or any ethnicity or community - geographic/ cultural or community of interest - to harm women, so that we can target effective solutions at those groups to reduce the risk of their offending.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/08/2024 17:17

People scoff at the daily mail and pretend that the guardian is a beacon of truth when it really isn't.

Indeed.

Mrsdyna · 08/08/2024 17:10

I don't know what the guardian achieves by often leaving out key information. It just makes them not credible.

People scoff at the daily mail and pretend that the guardian is a beacon of truth when it really isn't.

Southwestten · 08/08/2024 17:01

Also Devizes, I think.

Devizes in Wiltshire? Are you sure? I live quite near Devizes and there’s never been any publicity about it if so - nor rumours.

KielderWater · 08/08/2024 16:54

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 16:24

This is whataboutery
But just for info he's been immediately suspended by the Labour Party, calling it unacceptable. It'll take a few days to know what the police response is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-councillor-cut-throats-speech-walthamstow-protest-b2593240.html

Meanwhile Sunak is noticeable by his absence and various Conservative MPs and councillors appear sympathetic to the riots.

I will give Priti Patel credit for criticising the riots and rioters in very strong terms.

But not arrested?

Dumbo12 · 08/08/2024 16:43

I have worked with prostituted and trafficked women and girls, over a 40 year career. Those prostituting and trafficking women and girls are off all races, colours, creeds and socio economic backgrounds. The thing that stands out to me is that nearly, but not quite, 100 percent of them are men.

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:41

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SonicTheHodgeheg · 08/08/2024 16:40

Do the thugs really care about the children or are they angry that the perpetrators were Asian and got away with it for so long because of systematic police incompetence?
If they really cared about the children then you’d expect violence against children to be virtually non-existent there but the children are being used to make a point about race rather than increase support and community vigilance with regards to violence against children. I would hazard a guess that children there still suffer abuse every day because violent men will always go after the weakest groups like children, women, animals and the elderly.

LunaBlueSkies · 08/08/2024 16:38

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 16:25

Bamboomyrrh · 08/08/2024 16:21

It’s mind boggling to be a GC feminist and also be ok with misogynistic religious and cultural practices. For the record, I’m not ok with Christian messages regarding women, either. Or any religion or culture who puts men on pedestals over women.

I don't think anyone is OK with that.
Equally I find it mind boggling when people are accepting of Christianity and patriarchal practices generally, but very intolerant of Islam. It makes me feel their motivation isn't about protecting women and girls at all.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 16:24

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:18

A Labour councillor called for rioters’ throats to be cut at a protest to counter far-Right demonstrations.

Ricky Jones, who served as the local Labour councillor for Princes in Dartford, was filmed saying: “They are disgusting ... Nazi fascists, and we need to cut all their throats and get rid of them all.”

This is whataboutery
But just for info he's been immediately suspended by the Labour Party, calling it unacceptable. It'll take a few days to know what the police response is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-councillor-cut-throats-speech-walthamstow-protest-b2593240.html

Meanwhile Sunak is noticeable by his absence and various Conservative MPs and councillors appear sympathetic to the riots.

I will give Priti Patel credit for criticising the riots and rioters in very strong terms.

Labour councillor suspended after video emerges of man urging crowd to cut throats

Party says speech in Walthamstow ‘completely unacceptable’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-councillor-cut-throats-speech-walthamstow-protest-b2593240.html

Bamboomyrrh · 08/08/2024 16:21

It’s mind boggling to be a GC feminist and also be ok with misogynistic religious and cultural practices. For the record, I’m not ok with Christian messages regarding women, either. Or any religion or culture who puts men on pedestals over women.

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:20

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Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:19

Bamboomyrrh · 08/08/2024 16:00

It’s naivety. And a fixation on championing what are viewed as ‘minority’ groups in the UK to their own detriment. I don’t want to derail this thread but you see it happening with another prominent minority group. #BeKind…except I doubt these women would enjoy their own lives beholden to Sharia law.

Islam is not and never has been a minority group.

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 16:18

A Labour councillor called for rioters’ throats to be cut at a protest to counter far-Right demonstrations.

Ricky Jones, who served as the local Labour councillor for Princes in Dartford, was filmed saying: “They are disgusting ... Nazi fascists, and we need to cut all their throats and get rid of them all.”

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 16:08

Bamboomyrrh · 08/08/2024 16:00

It’s naivety. And a fixation on championing what are viewed as ‘minority’ groups in the UK to their own detriment. I don’t want to derail this thread but you see it happening with another prominent minority group. #BeKind…except I doubt these women would enjoy their own lives beholden to Sharia law.

Stop forced teaming GC womens reasonable concerns with islamophobia and racism please

Bamboomyrrh · 08/08/2024 16:00

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It’s naivety. And a fixation on championing what are viewed as ‘minority’ groups in the UK to their own detriment. I don’t want to derail this thread but you see it happening with another prominent minority group. #BeKind…except I doubt these women would enjoy their own lives beholden to Sharia law.

CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 15:59

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This is a religion that a large proportion of the world's population follow. You cannot generalise like that.

Grammarnut · 08/08/2024 15:57

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This. Thanks.

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 15:54

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CassieMaddox · 08/08/2024 15:49

The crimes came out around the time of the Oldham riots and the police were nervous about triggering other riots. The last week shows exactly why.

The far right in this context are causing their own problems by their tendency to go off half cocked with a violent response to a difficult problem.

Meanwhile the victims are largely ignored by this focus on the men.

Maybe if we listened to all victims of crime and didn't assume teenage girls were liars/gold diggers/enjoying it, this wouldn't happen as much.

Anklespraying · 08/08/2024 15:48

NeedSomeAnswersPlease · 08/08/2024 08:23

What happened in Rotherham was absolutely disgusting. The police and the council handled it pathetically and they should be brought to justice for their role in it.

However, that does not justify the holiday inn being set on fire or the community being subject to violence.

Neither is right, and two wrongs don't make a right.

It was a bin that was set on fire. Why exaggerate?