Guardian article- disgusting euphemism of the systematic rape of 1400 children

Actually, just reading this back, I'd like to apologise and change it.

It isn't just class, of course.

Gender too.

Certainly in this case; but usually I'd say class trumps gender virtually every time.

Either way, the above-mentioned chaps are still chuckling into their beer at the thought of the police being shy in case they're accused of being racist.

Thank you for this link. Seems Maggie has devoted herself to helping sexual abuse survivors now.
https://www.themaggieoliverfoundation.com/campaigning.

So many years have passed and here we still are.

I remember reading about the police's non-action at the time and thinking it was appalling and that the reason given was very fishy-sounding.

I thought that racism was one the police's main things that they were good at.

I bet there were a few chaps in Brixton/Handsworth/Moss Side/St Paul's etc chuckling into their beer when they heard that the police didn't want to be seen as racist so they did investigate.

Absolute poppycock.

The real reason they didn't deal with it?

Class, of course.

What else is there?

I agree entirely with Julie. The left have failed.

Rochdale plays into Ukip’s hands – and the liberal left is to blame Julie Bindel https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/26/rochdale-ukip-liberal-left-race-sexual-abuse?CMP=share_btn_url

I was the first journalist to write about such cases in the national press, and was immediately placed on “Islamophobia watch”, accused of demonising Pakistani men. But I had done nothing of the sort. I had attempted to expose the organised nature of the crime, and to highlight the fact that there was a hands-off approach from some child protection professionals.

Accurate data on perpetrators in organised CSE is essential.

From the IICSA Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse
B.5: Ethnicity data collection

40. As set out in Part H, this investigation demonstrated a widespread failure in the case study areas to record the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims of child sexual exploitation.

41. Analysis cannot be undertaken effectively unless there is an improvement in the accuracy and frequency of data collection generally. Under-recording will inhibit the opportunity to understand the context in which child sexual exploitation occurs, losing opportunities to deal most effectively with perpetrators and engage with victims and their communities. It is unclear whether a misplaced sense of political correctness or the sheer complexity of the problem have inhibited good-quality data collection generally and on ethnicity more specifically.

42. The failure to collect data on the ethnicity of the perpetrators and victims of child sexual exploitation, and the failure to make a public statement of the reasons why it is important to collect such data, have also led to a one-sided and often uninformed public debate where links have been made between ethnicity and a number of high-profile cases involving South Asian men. Allowing this debate to continue without providing a proper context allows an accusatory style of debate in the public domain which is both unhelpful and divisive.

43. Accurate data on the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims play an important part in enhancing understanding of crimes and the contexts in which they occur. They assist the relevant statutory agencies to target resources appropriately – enabling the police, for example, to engage with communities where these crimes occur to take preventative action. That engagement will be enhanced by an improved understanding of that community, such as whether there is resistance to intervention because authorities are distrusted, whether there are barriers to reporting based on cultural factors and whether members of that community fear the consequences of speaking out against wrongdoing. Victims may also require culturally sensitive services based on their needs to assist them and may need protection from being forced back into a life that has resulted in such damaging consequences.

44. The Secretary of State for the Home Department has been publishing data on perpetrator and victim ethnicity for 20 years, since the introduction of section 95 of the Criminal Justice Act 1991. This confirms the principle that statistical data on ethnicity are a valuable asset in ensuring statutory agencies are held to account for their performance in avoiding discrimination on the grounds of race or sex.

45. While the most up-to-date section 95 report contains data on the ethnicity of perpetrators of sexual offences, it does not break down the offence categories to include offences against children who have been sexually exploited.[1] It is also silent on the ethnic profile of victims of sexual offending.[2] While section 95 is an important feature of data collection in the criminal justice system, it does not – and indeed is not designed to – accommodate the detail necessary to better understand the nature and prevalence of child sexual exploitation by networks.

46. Despite attempts to ascertain data on ethnicity at a national level, little progress has been made. The Home Office’s paper Group-based Child Sexual Exploitation – Characteristics of Offending (published in December 2020) found that there were “significant limitations” to what can be said about links between ethnicity and child sexual exploitation. As this paper recognised, there is limited research and that which has been done tends to rely on poor quality data. There are significant challenges in obtaining accurate data.

47. Finally, the result of this lack of accurate and reliable data from police forces and local authorities, compounded by the lack of consistency about the definitions of ‘child sexual exploitation’ and ‘networks’ (discussed in Part C), is that the government and other organisations cannot know the current scale of child sexual exploitation by networks, or who is involved in these groups.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cs-organised-networks/

I think you are being wilfully disingenuous now.

Incompetence, victim blaming and in some instances being complicit, are themes in most instances of prostituted women and girls being failed by the police and other agencies.

It wasn't incompetence, it was racism - in the sense that the police did not want to upset apple carts in the communities the perpetrators belonged to. There was also an element of believing the victims were worthless, anyway.

They were mostly born here. However, their family and cultural norms were from their place of origin - one of the results of multi-culturalism and communities of communities. Cultures of origin matter.

Yes as far as I can see conservatives have condemned riots alot more than Labour have condemned elements of Palestine "protests" which Jewish people on here have told us are making them very scared. And the fact that someone is born in this country doesn't imbue them with the culture as mass immigration has meant there are whole areas of towns where people may as well be in their original country with their compratriots but just living here - that is why people are worried about integration.

Meanwhile Sunak is noticeable by his absence and various Conservative MPs and councillors appear sympathetic to the riots.

Put a sock in it Cassie Sunak HAS condemned the riots, what do you want him to do? Appear on TV? Book a slot for a Speech to the Nation? If he did you'd be furious and saying How dare the ex PM do this? He's not in power anymore. You'd be outraged on behalf of your heart throb Keir Starmer.

MSM have a whole host of reasons not to report things. It might be ‘off message’, they might feel it is too niche, they might have other more important news. Hence the idea that a day dominated by eg a terrorist attack is a ‘good day to bury bad news’ - by the time the big news has died down it is old news and the world has moved on.

Cultures aren’t destroyed in a generation! You are right that this is not a Muslim thing or a Pakistani thing but a complex interplay of a local, National and religious culture. It’s always like that. There is no one British universal culture, or one universal Christian culture, or one universal regional culture, but there will be distinctive individual cultures built up in different areas or communities around the interplay of these three.

You are very naive @CassieMaddox. The whole mainstream media is told what to say by govt on certain issues and that is why people are going more into alternative news and sm to find other views/the truth. I first noticed it during Covid then BLM, Ukraine, gender ideology and on and on. Alot of people in this country trust the BBC etc. implicitly and don't even question the narratives (which I find very depressing). The latest one is to say the "far right" is the biggest threat to the country and anyone concerned about immigration and threat of unvetted men from dangerous countries is "far right."

I should have said "if something isn't being reported by any mainstream source". That's what I meant. If one can't find it in a mainstream source, one can't be sure it's accurate.

Yes, I agree. Omission across all mainstream media sites far less likely though and would tend to imply a legal restriction rather than any ideological one.

I think if one can't verify something through mainstream media it's safer to assume its made up. People can easily get radicalised and sucked in by misinformation and I'm not so naive or arrogant that I assume that would not happen to me.

'If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. '

I'm sorry but that is just painfully naive.
Omission to suit narrative is daily practise in journalism left or right on any number of topics and for any number of reasons, wether by editorial choice, owners preference, advertisers pressure or by government decree.

I genuinely cant believe you said that.

I thought a lot of the men were born in the UK.
If you are correct and it's that localised to a geographical area, then a conversation about Muslim practices or even Pakistani practices is largely irrelevant and potentially misleading.

No. It isn't.
If something isn't being reported by a mainstream source, the chances are it can't be verified. Therefore there is no "misleading by omission", there's being responsible and not spreading conspiracy theories.

Yes misleading by omission is just as bad as printing lies in some ways ad not so blatant. And has led people to get their info from social media which politicians and msm (their rivals) then blame for misinformation! The cheek!

There are still a lot of people who believe they are the standard for what is true, because the don't print actual incorrect facts

as recently as the 1960s Sicily's honour culture demanded that a rape victim marry her rapist, restitutional marriage

In America child marriage (below 18) is still legal most states, including with no lower age limit in five states. And marriage to your rapist can still be demanded culturally, not least because it exempts the rapist from statutory rape charges in some states:

19thnews.org/2023/07/explaining-child-marriage-laws-united-states/

So what do people think made it acceptable to afro Caribbean men to pimp and rape girls? Men from just about every culture and religion rape and pimp women and girls, often from other cultures.
It isn't x or y men, it's men

@aladderformoths has made the point succinctly. If I remember the men in Rotherham came from Waziristan, which borders Afghanistan. The culture there is an 'honour' culture, which includes punishment rape and death to women and girls who transgress codes e.g. by being raped or refusing to marry where they are told, or in order to punish a woman's family for insulting the honour of a higher status family.

You will maybe have seen the numerous protests by women in India, against a culture that sees rape as an unimportant crime (esp. when against low-caste women or debt-slaves) for which young men's lives should not be ruined. Last year there were demonstrations when the President remitted sentences for men who had raped a pregnant woman and murdered her relatives.
Different cultures see women in different ways. We have taken centuries in Europe to corral sentiments that see women as things (as recently as the 1960s Sicily's honour culture demanded that a rape victim marry her rapist, restitutional marriage, so that rape was used as a means to force a woman to marry a man she did not want). If we now have sections of our community that include men who only respect women of their faith then this needs to be addressed. I am not suggesting solutions but the evidence is there @CassieMaddox , it's not a generalisation, it is an examination of cultures that shows these factors on the home ground, not just here.

Also, I remember that T. Robinson tried to name the defendants before the trial, nearly causing the trial to be called off - idiot.