Help me present evidence to my son

I agree that the umbrella term of "trans" is very unhelpful here, because when i talk about trans women i dont include crossdressers/men who enjoy dressing as women but i understand that this falls under that umbrella term.
That's actually a really good point that i hadnt considered, i use "trans" pretty much exclusively for trasngender people and thats who i am thinking of when i discuss this

i will take that on board, thank you

💐
And a big hug.

I am a survivor of male violence and sometimes I struggle to go into a shop if the teller is male. I will always pick the female, or I just squash my discomfort down low and slap a smile on my face. So many women are like me, too many. We are slowly losing all the spaces that allowed us to access public space or we just have to suck up our discomfort as single sex spaces become mixed or admit a special subset of men.

I just wish people could find some empathy and compassion for women but I guess men and their feelings will always be deemed more important.

How about not worrying about it?

NO-ONE CAN CHANGE SEX.

So many women do not understand how many women have been affected by male violence and would be made uncomfortable by men in women's spaces. It is cruel, almost as if they cannot see women and girls as real people with real feelings who deserve a few things just for them.

I dont know if Im even writing to the correct post, I dont post much, Im fuming, who is this bloke? Or is it a woman, ok for men to be in women’s prisons if they not convicted of a violent crime, wow Im fuming, I need to go onto furry cats and dogs to calm down. Save us from people with minds like this!

Please just explain to me why Women and Girls as a Group (ie half the population) have to Give Up their hard and long won places and rights, in order to accommodate a tiny proportion of Men that claim to feel like women (they can’t and never will be able to), can you answer that question please ? Why do I as a woman have to change everything about my life I have lived for over 60 years be erased and made nul and void for the accommodation of these Men?

...or Nigella

good question - no i don't believe that trans women who are jailed for sexual offences should be housed in low security prisons with women (but thankfully they arent! they have supervision orders, etc as pat of the risk assessments made when they are admitted) But yes, i actually don't have a problem with trans women in for non violent crimes being in women's prisons. i know that will be in opposition to a lot of people here.
I also dont have a massive issue with some refuges working with trans women, when there are also single sex refuges in the same area.

Honestly, just don't talk about it unless the issue comes up. Don't avoid it either. My daughter is twaw, there really is no other position at that age. she is autistic and gay, the only lesbians she knows are males attracted to females, it's ridiculous. Luckily we have moved through the phase where she wants to mutilate her healthy body, hopefully.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish it's really interesting reading your view point. You seem to understand male violence at the same time as you are arguing for a subset of men to have unfettered access to women and girls. Do you have evidence that men who claim to be women offend at a lower rate than all the other men? They don't by the way.

It's not so much Not All Men more Not My Nigel.

Best answer so far is the pp recommending that video of a teacher and student.

Definitely also get him to explain stuff to you, as pps have suggested. Just keep mirroring his answers.

And also agree about making scenarios personal to you or to him, with the caveat that if he has drunk the Kool-Aid, he won't think women matter and that might (temporarily) include you. So might be quite painful for you.

Just avoid the subject, you can’t argue with 18. Hopefully he’ll learn.

@Christinapple the athletes involved never had a testosterone test, only chromosome tests which disqualified them from female sports. Aka male.

Men who are now referred to as "transwomen" were previously called crossdressers, transvestites or transsexuals. The older terms were clearly associated with a sexual motive. Not necessarily criminal, but definitely sexual. There is no reason to believe that the motive for transition has changed, just because the terminology used is different.

There just isnt compelling evidence for me to fear the trans community as a whole, and certainly not more than straight men.

Is there any compelling evidence that men who pretend to be women (or pretend to pretend to be women) are less of a threat to women than any other men are? Bearing in mind the sexual motive behind "transition", particularly for older, heterosexual males, this seems unlikely.

This is an interesting read about the links between transvestic fetishism/ AGP and criminal sexual behaviour.
https://x.com/sappholives83/status/1816266309555884491

you cant extrapolate from a sub-group of a population by saying the behaviour of trans criminals is applicable to all trans people?

bit of a sleight of hand there. In the case of trans women in prison we are not looking at a sample but the whole population (of trans women in prison). It sounds like you think there is a case for trans women being in the female estate, can I check whether you actually think that. Do you think it is reasonable to have a blanket ban on all trans women from the female estate, in the same way as all men are.

The boxer was banned and then reinstated. Due to physical differences it was not a level playing field, as demonstrated and they shouldn't have fought. A trans boxer broke the skull of a woman not too long ago. A woman could die.

She hadn't been banned from olympics, so in fairness to her she hasn't actually broken any rules. I do think the anger here needs to be redirected to the IOC rather than an individual

You mean the fight between a woman and a woman with higher-than-normal levels of testosterone? Probably not the best example.

You're under the illusion it was two women. One had men's chromosomes and had been banned to fight against women because they failed a gender test.

Implying trans women are only trans so they can enter women's facilities to commit sex crimes is a transphobic trope. There is nothing stopping cisgender men simply walking as-is into a woman's bathroom to do what you mentioned, so there is no reason at all for a man to go through the whole process of a sex change.

The majority of Transwomen don't go through a sex change, they simply declare themselves women. That means it's easy for men to enter women's spaces.

i think the OP had a genuine request for advice with her son, don't be so flippant. We don't kick our kids out for disagreements, and there's nothing in the OP to suggest he's been out of order.

If you behaved that way as my parent I would not be talking to you at all never mind about trans rights!

the whole process of a sex change.

You mean the "whole process" which consists of saying "I am a woman"?

What's the difference between a man who says he's a woman and any other man?

i take your point, but i disagree
Its not "not all men" (which i detest as a phrase, because male violence is a genuine and measurable issue, systemic and embedded in power structures and institutions) And i am completely supportive of single sex spaces (and also separate/additional single gender spaces) because of this
Its more a "based on data, where is the threat?" and interpretation of the data of offenders in prison shows a trend, but this isnt a reasonable sample. you cant extrapolate from a sub-group of a population by saying the behaviour of trans criminals is applicable to all trans people? There just isnt compelling evidence for me to fear the trans community as a whole, and certainly not more than straight men. And, as i said before, i have trans friends of all ages from 20-70 so ive prob got an implicit bias there too, which i'll totally accept might colour my view

If you’re referring to the UK, the current laws don’t permit self ID.

You refer to 2010. Do you mean the Equality Act 2010? That doesn’t mention self ID.

Regarding “judging” an entire group, we’re not doing that. We know that some men are rapists, so we keep all men out of women’s toilets. We aren’t judging all men, or claiming that all of them are rapists, we’re just recognising that some of them are and therefore it’s safer for women if all men are barred from women’s safe spaces. Decent men accept that, they don’t feel that they are personally being judged. Everyone accepts that men’s rights should be limited in this case, i.e. that they should not have the right to enter women’s safe spaces.

Aren't these arguments a bit "not all men" though? Why do you think we have single sex spaces or services that exclude men in the first place, given that most men aren't the worst behaved?

Also if you like data why do you need to see a spike rather than consider the stable patterns that we see replicated across various countries? Isn't the fact that prison data shows trans women and males are vastly more likely to be in prison for sex offences than females of interest in and of itself?