Help me present evidence to my son

Exactly. You've articulated it perfectly.

I understand that, but there is no scientific evidence for gender ideology.

I'm sorry if this is ignorant but for me it just keeps coming back this.

If a trans woman is a woman then can a woman be a trans woman?

No because only a biological man can be a trans woman.

I'm sorry if this is ignorant but for me it just keeps coming back this.

If a trans woman is a woman then can a woman be a trans woman?

No because only a biological man can be a trans woman.

I don't know about the sex of avocados (apparently cucumbers also come in male and female, something to do with the seeds) and I don't personally believe that TWAW but @Littlepinkstarsbyradish seems to willing to discuss differing points of view and I really want to understand more about one that doesn't make sense to me.

There is no science, outside clown fish and avocados. Last time I looked I was not an avocado and nor was anyone I know. It's scientific bsht, with no foundation. DSDs also have nothing to do with it - and are sex-determined as well.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish apologies if this has already been covered because I don't have time to go through the full thread, but I'm really interested how you can, as a scientist, explain that transwomen are women? What's the science?

As mothers it is not our role to make sure our DC follow views or paths of which we approve. We can guide, and give examples, and show where opinions may differ. Reading this read would almost certainly not change the mind of a young person fed on TWAW. Only time, and experience can do that.

There is a difference between believing that transwomen are women and should be allowed in women's safe spaces, and believing that men have the right to rape and assault women and girls.

I don't think even the most hardline of TRAs believe the latter. They may believe in things that will increase the danger to women of being raped (ie allowing TW into women's safe spaces), although they mostly don't see the increased danger. But they don't believe that gives anyone the right to actually rape women.

This is nothing to do with politics, it's to do with the safety of women & girls. If my son believed that men have the right to rape and assault women & girls he'd be out on his ear.

This is mental. I'm hardline transwomen are men no argument but this is bonkers.

This is about beliefs, not rules of the house.

Rules would be about who empties the dishwasher - she can require compliance with those.

But requiring that he believe the same as she does on every issue? No.

Can a husband require his wife to have the same policitical views as him, and vote the same way as him? I think everyone here would say no. So why should a mother require her adult son to have the same beliefs as her? If she was a practising catholic, could she require him to be a practising catholic as well?

If he lives under the OP's roof then he needs to follow her rules.

I think @AdultHumanEmail gave some really good advice there, pussyfooting around isn't going to cut it.

This is ridiculous he is 18

I'm sorry if this sounds dramatic, but your DS is at a crossroads and as a parent it's your responsibility to make sure he picks the path you approve of.

I strongly disagree with this advice.

Her son is 18. He is an adult, and has the right to decide his views for himself. A parent cannot demand that their adult children "pick the path [they] approve of".

A parent can try to persuade them of their own views, but ultimately, it's up to the adult child to decide. Forcing the issue as you suggest would almost certainly achieve nothing, destroying the mother-son relationship without changing his mind.

You need to stomp this out before it goes any further. You actually have power in this situation. Sit him down and make him read this entire thread. Make him watch videos. Then you need to humiliate him and his pathetic worldview.

I'm sorry if this sounds dramatic, but your DS is at a crossroads and as a parent it's your responsibility to make sure he picks the path you approve of.

Make this a huge deal. Talk to him about it non stop. At breakfast, at dinner, while you're giving him lifts to places. Make participation in your life conditional on understanding that TWA not W, and never can be. Drive a wedge between him and his social groups - that's where most of this comes from. Confiscating mobile phones is the way to go.

Be prepared for things to get bad. He may try to cut you off for a while. If this happens, so be it. There are more important things in life, and preventing women from being r*ped is one of them.

You got this!

Such a good point. Women only ever get what men think they deserve.

They weren't happy with equality, let's face it, so now they're ruined it for us by saying they are women too and taking what we fought for.

You could tell him about the prize for finding anything JKR has written or said that is transphobic.

You might not be able to, and if he thinks JK Rowling is despicable, I assume he thinks you're despicable as well?

This isn't just about biology. It's about what men think women deserve, and sadly it seems like your son doesn't believe women should be entitled to their own spaces.

Find Alexa Blake on YouTube.

Alexa is a trans woman and always says, "I'm a trans woman, so I'm a biological male".

If an actual real living 24/7 365 days a year trans woman says, "I am not a woman" who the hell is he to disagree?

I will do Alexa the curtesy of calling her, her because she is a down to earth person.

She went to pick her nephew up from school, the teacher asked the child if he knew who was picking him up and the nephew said, "my uncle 'old male name' over there" so was basically dead named and misgendered and thought it was funny.

What's the difference between a man who says he's a woman and any other man?

And why's the onus - as ever - on girls and women (in situations where they are undressed and vulnerable..) having to be the ones supposedly working this out?

Precisely.

One of the reasons we are in this mess is because activists and ideologues have been allowed to step WAY out of their remit and into medical, legal and educational decision making.

See Mia Hughes work on the WPATH files for another deeply worrying example of that in the US.

It's part of the capture. Well meaning people in well meaning institutions were so afraid of getting things wrong again in the way that society did with gay rights that they have allowed activism in too much to places where it has no place to be in a sensible democratic and ethical society.

This might explain the boxing case.
@Christinapple do you really believe that male bodied people should be allowed to participate in women's sports?
This is an unhappy situation for the boxers, but does make it unfair and dangerous. Being kind does not mean being unfair or unsafe.

A simple cheek swab can protect female boxers

www.thetimes.com/article/b8a7b567-810f-4505-8c2e-e9cfb0b8132b?shareToken=985d8199b826341a38810549e4b247ca

Also, @Christinapple do you agree with Laurel Hubbard, Lia Thomas or Emily Bridges competing and winning in women's competitions, removing the opportunity from biological women?

Why should ANY transgender support groups be included?

Activists shouldn't be near health care nor reviews of protocol.

Which transgender support organisations do you think should have been involved in the Cass Report, out of interest?