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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me present evidence to my son

595 replies

AlbertaWildRose · 02/08/2024 00:17

My DS is 18 and heavy into the TWAW belief. He thinks JK Rowling is a despicable human being for her position and thinks that women should have no problem with all of this, and it's all just "scare-mongering" to say otherwise. Whenever I try to talk to him about this I end up getting too emotional to be rational. I really want to present him with evidence that this movement is not good for women - please help direct me to some good resources. Thank you.

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7
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 15:32

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:03

one big one you have ignored is in the article I copied to you

you just can’t handle the truth

The article from 5th March about India Willoughby, without the video which was the subject of the initial tweet, which you copied to me instead of an actual explanation of why you think her tweet from yesterday about the Algerian boxer is transphobic?

I don't know how much clearer I can make this, but I am not interested in links to articles other people have written.

I am only interested in links to JKR's actual tweets, and an explanation from YOU, using YOUR OWN WORDS, why YOU think the tweets YOU have linked to are transphobic.

India Willoughby cannot explain why YOU think what JKR posted yesterday about the Algerian boxer is transphobic, and certainly could not have done so on 5th March, which was almost five months ago.

Childrenofthestones · 02/08/2024 15:27

Tell him how RAAIN, the rpe survivor advocacy group, estimate 1 in 6 females will suffer either a rpe or a serious SA during their lifetime. That's millions of girls and women of all ages living amongst us.
Can you spot them? No, me neither.
I find that they manage to get back their lives and even more amazing, manage to be in the company of men socially, fills me with nothing but admiration for them.
Most manage to do this because when they are at their most vulnerable, in a public toilet with their knickers round their ankles, naked in a shower at a gym, behind a locked cell door for the night, or elderly and alone in their bungalow within a paid for intimate carer, or seeking help at a rape crisis centre, they know that nobody with a penis is going to be anywhere near them. We'll not now. In fact if they complain they are called bigots.
The tiny number of Trans women need to accommodated in society, but it shouldn't be at the cost of millions of traumatised rpe survivors.

BackToLurk · 02/08/2024 15:27

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:10

Ok, there is fear and anger now on all sides but it need not be. A lot is engendered by anti trans ideologues not backing with actual evidence or very small statistical evidence.

I would hate to be in the ladies with men even cd TVs but trans women are women with or without a chemically castrated willy or with orchectomy. Most can’t get erections and don’t want them. Most are waiting 6-10 years for gender identity healthcare and have to live in the role for at least two years to be believed so how can they use the men’s loo where they will be attacked?

most TW can't get erections eh? Well some men who don't claim a trans identity can't get erections either, can they go in the ladies?

"You have proof of impotence sir? That'll do nicely. In you come"

Alucard55 · 02/08/2024 15:14

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:10

Ok, there is fear and anger now on all sides but it need not be. A lot is engendered by anti trans ideologues not backing with actual evidence or very small statistical evidence.

I would hate to be in the ladies with men even cd TVs but trans women are women with or without a chemically castrated willy or with orchectomy. Most can’t get erections and don’t want them. Most are waiting 6-10 years for gender identity healthcare and have to live in the role for at least two years to be believed so how can they use the men’s loo where they will be attacked?

Why will they be attacked in the men's loo?

lonelywater · 02/08/2024 15:14

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:10

Ok, there is fear and anger now on all sides but it need not be. A lot is engendered by anti trans ideologues not backing with actual evidence or very small statistical evidence.

I would hate to be in the ladies with men even cd TVs but trans women are women with or without a chemically castrated willy or with orchectomy. Most can’t get erections and don’t want them. Most are waiting 6-10 years for gender identity healthcare and have to live in the role for at least two years to be believed so how can they use the men’s loo where they will be attacked?

yeah, barely week goes by without a report of a trans women being duffed up in the gents. p.s trans women are men. but you must know that?

Nothingeverything · 02/08/2024 15:13

Littlepinkstarsbyradish · 02/08/2024 14:20

i think i might be a bit more comfortable with this because i'm based in brighton most of the time, but its not unusual to have toilets marked "urinals", "toilet"(single cubicles), "womens"
that doesn't tend to cause upset because the men tend to use the urinals (and any TW/non-binary if they have a penis) and if women are concerned about TW using the women's then they also have the option of the single cubicles or if they dont have an issue then you can queue up in the women's with everyone. I dunno, it works in Brighton, ive never known anyone be annoyed by it. Lots of LGBTQ clubs also just have toilets for everyone, pretty easy in a club where there's an attendant present all night.

Same as some gyms have 3 changing rooms for men, women and anyone (the "anyone" is also single cubicles off a corridor)

i think it can be done quite sensitively if there's some thought put in?

Yep this doesn't work though. In the example I gave the tw was given a third space to change and shower and still complained.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:10

Alucard55 · 02/08/2024 15:02

Absolutely. It's to do with protecting the rights, privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls. That includes the women and girls who do not feel empowered or knowledgeable to speak out on this subject, and the women and girls who perhaps can't articulate why, but they know it's not right.

Ok, there is fear and anger now on all sides but it need not be. A lot is engendered by anti trans ideologues not backing with actual evidence or very small statistical evidence.

I would hate to be in the ladies with men even cd TVs but trans women are women with or without a chemically castrated willy or with orchectomy. Most can’t get erections and don’t want them. Most are waiting 6-10 years for gender identity healthcare and have to live in the role for at least two years to be believed so how can they use the men’s loo where they will be attacked?

lonelywater · 02/08/2024 15:03

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 15:00

So you think I should waste my own time combing through JK Rowling's Twitter feed looking for tweets which might explain why you think she is transphobic, rather than you actually linking to the tweets you think are transphobic and explaining why you think they are transphobic?

Why is your time more valuable than mine?

If you are going to make a serious allegation about someone and claim that the evidence is on the internet for all to see, you need to show us that evidence or pipe down.

you're wasting your time here, since Diana equates statements of fact (I.e. men are men, regardless of what they say) with hatred.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:03

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 15:00

So you think I should waste my own time combing through JK Rowling's Twitter feed looking for tweets which might explain why you think she is transphobic, rather than you actually linking to the tweets you think are transphobic and explaining why you think they are transphobic?

Why is your time more valuable than mine?

If you are going to make a serious allegation about someone and claim that the evidence is on the internet for all to see, you need to show us that evidence or pipe down.

one big one you have ignored is in the article I copied to you

you just can’t handle the truth

Alucard55 · 02/08/2024 15:02

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:59

I’m sorry you think that it is acceptable to spread hate and fear. It’s nothing to do with toilets.

Absolutely. It's to do with protecting the rights, privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls. That includes the women and girls who do not feel empowered or knowledgeable to speak out on this subject, and the women and girls who perhaps can't articulate why, but they know it's not right.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 15:02

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:57

Hang on a second, I asked you to explain why her tweet about the Algerian boxer was transphobic and you've linked me to some Sky News piece about India Willoughby which predates yesterday's fight by almost five months.

Are you confused?

Please explain, in your own words, why you think her tweet about the Algerian boxer is transphobic.

Edited

Wading in at all is born of her anti trans ideology that is all

I don’t have a real opinion on the boxing issue here it’s very difficult to separate cis women and ban them for T levels

the only trans boxer at the Olympic Games is a trans man and all the press has ignored that

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 15:00

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:58

waffle? I’m not sure. I avoid X but the direct quote is there you just will never stop arguing about your heroine when the real point is that the issues are not being sensibly discussed

you are a waste of time I don’t have

So you think I should waste my own time combing through JK Rowling's Twitter feed looking for tweets which might explain why you think she is transphobic, rather than you actually linking to the tweets you think are transphobic and explaining why you think they are transphobic?

Why is your time more valuable than mine?

If you are going to make a serious allegation about someone and claim that the evidence is on the internet for all to see, you need to show us that evidence or pipe down.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:59

Alucard55 · 02/08/2024 14:55

Fear into MEN everywhere that'll be.

I’m sorry you think that it is acceptable to spread hate and fear. It’s nothing to do with toilets.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:58

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:55

It would be helpful if you could link to her actual tweets, rather than a load of waffle about what India Willoughby has said about her tweets without any context, such as the original video.

Can you do that, or are you blocked by JK Rowling on Twitter?

waffle? I’m not sure. I avoid X but the direct quote is there you just will never stop arguing about your heroine when the real point is that the issues are not being sensibly discussed

you are a waste of time I don’t have

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:57

Hang on a second, I asked you to explain why her tweet about the Algerian boxer was transphobic and you've linked me to some Sky News piece about India Willoughby which predates yesterday's fight by almost five months.

Are you confused?

Please explain, in your own words, why you think her tweet about the Algerian boxer is transphobic.

Alucard55 · 02/08/2024 14:55

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:23

Ive answered this elsewhere but every time she calls trans women misogynistic or male fantasists that instilled misery and fear in trans women everywhere

Fear into MEN everywhere that'll be.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:55

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:53

It would be helpful if you could link to her actual tweets, rather than a load of waffle about what India Willoughby has said about her tweets without any context, such as the original video.

Can you do that, or are you blocked by JK Rowling on Twitter?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2024 14:55

Wow, India Willoughby. Solid.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:52

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:50

OK, so for ease of reference, this is the tweet you're objecting to, is it?

Why is it transphobic?

Explain it like I'm five.

Help me present evidence to my son
Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2024 14:51

The reason you haven't done so is because you can't. If you could, you would.

Yes. Oh well.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/08/2024 14:51

Well they aren't women. But do post her tweets where she says they are all "misogynistic and male fantasists". And no I'm not going looking, you bring proof.

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:50

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:36

When has she called trans women, as a category, misogynistic? Link, please.

Or has she accused individuals of being misogynistic? In which case, please link to an example so we can assess the circumstances in which she said it.

It's not transphobic to call someone out for being misogynistic if they are being misogynistic. Even if that person happens to identify as trans.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-imane-khelif-olympics-boxer-gender-controversy-angela-carini-1236092812/amp/

it’s her favourite word for anything gender variant

JK Rowling Imane Khelif

J.K. Rowling, Elon Musk Criticize Olympics After Algeria’s Imane Khelif Wins Women’s Boxing Match Amid Gender Controversy: ‘A Misogynist Sporting Establishment’

JK Rowling, Elon Musk and more are condeming the Olympics after boxer Imane Khelif defeated Italy’s Angela Carini in 46 seconds.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-imane-khelif-olympics-boxer-gender-controversy-angela-carini-1236092812/amp

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 02/08/2024 14:49

DianaAntoniaJasmine · 02/08/2024 14:47

What is a lie? Why add that and cross it off.

Have you or have you not seen all her tweets and comments saying trans women are misogynistic and male fantasists and misgendering them and that trans women are not women and do you deny her sponsorship of legal action to destroy trans rights??? There a dozens go look if you are really interested.

I certainly have not seen you post any of her allegedly transphobic tweets in this thread.

The reason you haven't done so is because you can't. If you could, you would.