I have never felt a punch like this’ – Carini

You think boxing is barbaric and shouldn't be allowed; fair enough, but not remotely relevant to this discussion. Allowing men to punch women is also barbaric, yet you have no objection to that situation? WTF!

Cross-posted!

Yes, but as I understand it, people with DSD still have a definite biological sex, from birth, even if the appearance of their genitalia is confusing. If they are male, they will go through male puberty, and this is when they will gain huge physical advantages over women. The fact that they may have presented as female when they were children (and perhaps continued to do so even after realising they had gone through male puberty) does not mean they should be allowed to compete as women. You compete usimg your body, not using your gender identity or 'passport sex'.

Jeez, it’s so utterly tiresome to have to explain it repeatedly. Here’s the simple version:

Men, whether DSD men or trans identifying men, have male advantage over women. They are not eligible for the women’s category on account of them being men. There’s no difference between the two. The women’s category needs to be protected.

HTH.

Thank you! This is how I'm feeling now!! To misquote Mike Tyson:"everyone can be nuanced till someone gets punched in the face". Posie's clean, if very frank , statements about AHF, and not needing to be a vet to know a dog, are going to get a lot more traction. In my anger I'm hoping this will be the Rubicon for a lot of lingering "be kind/both sides". This can not continue

Hmm, while I’ll happily be labelled a TERF, I’m a bit disappointed by some of the commentary on this. This isn’t a case of a transwoman inserting themselves into women’s sport. This is an individual with a complicated intersex condition. The two scenarios are very different and it’s
not correct to argue that this is all part of the “gender lunacy”. People have co-opted the story for their own agendas.

I just admit I originally though she was transgender and therefore born male. I was outraged she was allowed to compete.

It seems from more recent reports this isn't the case and is intersex, which complicates things even further.

Equality in the punching-other-people department is not a valuable goal.

Yes it is, if women choose to box, then it definitely is. The fact you wouldn't choose to box is utterly irrelevant. Feminism is for all women, including ones who do things you disapprove of.

Equality in the punching-other-people department is not a valuable goal.

Good to see Reduxx getting credited in the article, even though it's quite low down.

@ChildlessCatLadiesRuleOK you’re missing the point. No matter what the sport is women shouldn’t be discriminated against. Your opinion of the sport is irrelevant.

It shouldn't be a sport, full stop. Calling a display of ritualised violence a sport is obscene. If you want to watch a contest of skill, strength or agility there are plenty of other sports available.

Astonishing. That's just not true.
Not arbitrarily disqualified without due process, either. Sex eligibility rules were applied.
"Everyone has the right to practice sport without discrimination except women ".

IIRC Julia Bradbury or someone presenting it piped up to inform him that people disagreed with him. Yes, because they're idiots.

Fiona Bruce it was, I think. Julia Bradbury comes across as fairly reasonable to me.

Males with CAIS have skeletal advantages and never have to worry about monthly variations in oestrogen or progesterone and never have to manage their training around their non-existent periods or manage their non-existent periods around their training.

They absolutely have male advantage.

Well, we are talking about sport, aren't we? And CAIS males do have sex-based advantages over women even though they have not been through puberty.

This is why they are overrepresented on podiums in women's sports.

such a sensible response! i completely agree

😂

Yes, they are male.

I think many people feel that CAIS is an instance where there ought to be more flexibility how we treat it practically, day to day. Because in their real experience, they are not only raised as girls from childhood to puberty, they remain women to all appearances later in life, and experience the world without the influence of male hormones on their bodies and brains.

It would seem absurd to make someone like this use a male change room, for example. Or to insist they change to a "male" name and pronouns and that kind of thing. They'd likely be mistaken for women even if they wanted to.

On the other hand, in medical care, obviously doctors are going to have to treat them as males with a disorder.

So the question is, where does sports fall. It seems to come down mainly to the question of whether there is a sex based advantage over female people.

IIRC Julia Bradbury or someone presenting it piped up to inform him that people disagreed with him. Yes, because they're idiots.