I have never felt a punch like this’ – Carini

Lets cut to the chase. Man knows that he is a man and is enabled by the IOC to give a woman a good smacking. So he gives that woman a good smacking and walks away feeling good about himself.

The IOC. International enablers of VAWG.

Male = XY.
Here is the statement from the IBA saying that they tested both boxers and found they had XY chromosomes, ie they were male.

https://www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023

And here is the explanation from the media outlet that broke the story initially.
https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1818750970031227242

It's a sport. Indeed they choose to participate. But they do so on the understanding that the rules are followed. One of the rules is that people with XY chromosomes don't fight people with XX chromosomes because that is too dangerous - and this has not only happened in boxing, but also rugby (which is a contact sport where people get stomped on).

You could say the same, that no one has to participate, about rugby or any other contact sport.

When people do participate, they have a reasonable expectation of sporting fairness and safety within the parameters of the sport. Setting women to compete against men in full-contact sports is neither fair nor safe.

In a world where women do sport a lot less than men, endorsing unfairness that will discourage female participation is misogyny.

And you would be wrong. You're basically like a flat earther.

@sadabouti - i would say that males have the SRY gene on the Y chromosome and the receptors to respond to the androgens that are created in response to that.

How many times, you cannot be born female and have XY chromosomes. FFS.

No, not at all.

Would you think it was fair to put a guy in a wheelchair in the mend 1000m?

No one with CAIS could compete in elite male sport. In a boxing match it would be as unfair and dangerous as what we just saw.

@similarminimer you are swerving the point with an ad hominem attack because you know the answer and don't want to say it. Males have XY chromosomes. Women have XX chromosomes. Men shouldn't be boxing with women because it's unsporting. True or untrue?

How about you show some respect for the women and girls whose rights to fair and safe competition you are not even considering.

Women's sports are not a consolation prize for male athletes with medical conditions. Women's sports are for women to excel in.

I completely agree that they are male.

I can’t seem to find where the information is that says they have XY chromosomes ?

I’ve seen multiple sources say they were born female with XX chromosomes though so I’m genuinely confused.

I don't see your point, clearly he doesn't have CAIS.

@sadobouti - this isn't some 'gotcha'. There are people with genetic conditions leading to infertility and emotional distress potentially reading this. Can you show some respect?

No.

For a start, sex is fixed from conception, not birth.
Khelif has XY chromosomes which means he is male. That's what he has always been, though he probably has a DSD. We don't know for sure, or which one.

His testosterone levels were not tested by the IBA who did the sex-testing that revealed he was XY.

Exactly, they are male. Just admit it.

@similarminimer

It's a complex issue - and I think that there are more informed discussions to be had about this, in more senitive settings, so will bow out

I get your trying to be kind and sensitive. I really do. But none of this is complex. And we are where we are because people have tried to make it complex.

I like to think about it like this… Women’s sport category was created to enable those of the female sex to compete. That was it. It’s whole purpose. Not women + those with male intersex conditions + men who want to be transwomen. It’s not the ‘not competitive in the men’s’ category. It is the category for 50% of the humans on this planet who are born with a biological sex of female.

And that’s it for me. It is very plain and very simple.

Do they have XX or XY chromosomes ?

Hermaphroditism? FFS

They're not female.
They're male. The DSD doesn't make them female, the fact that they have it proves that they are male. Female embryos are not affected by AIS.

How they think about themselves is irrelevant in this context - sport - is irrelevant. Sex is what matters in sport.

@similarminimer what people believe is irrelevant. Some people believe the earth is flat. Some people believe in God. Science is science. We are a species divided by chromosomal sex differences. If you have XY chromosomes, you are and will always be male. The intersex conditions we are talking about are male conditions, not female conditions. You can leave ideas of hermaphroditism to the ancient Greeks. Gender is a construct. Sex is real, observable and immutable.

Sport should reflect reality.

Apparently Khelif was born female and has XY chromosomes but has higher levels of testosterone ? Is this true, I’ve seen lots of different stories on them.

@omlettes - I dont think the person in the picture has CAIS. My point was that there are a number of DSDs - many of which lead to a response to testosterone at puberty, and should exclude those people from women's sports.

Some DSDs, including CAIS, don't produce a physiological response to testosterone and therefore I dont think that it's obvious that these women should necessarily be excluded from competitive sport.

It's a complex issue - and I think that there are more informed discussions to be had about this, in more senitive settings, so will bow out

Surely the first duty of a sport’s governing bodyisto keep competitors safe. So in men’s boxing heavyweights don’t fightflyweights.

The IOC does not seem to have given any thought to Carini’s safety.They have failed in their duty.

@TempestTost no. What you mean is they wouldn't win. That's not the same as not being able to compete on a fair basis. I could compete on a fair basis as a super heavyweight male. I'm 6 foot 6 inches and about 22 stone. I'd lose though on the first punch because I'm 43, fat, slow and weak. Wouldn't mean that the bout was unfair though would it. What isn't fair is what is being done to the legitimate female competitors who have had the competition ruined by the sort of ill thought thru tosh that ad some males with ambiguous genitals wrongly consider themselves women, that they shouldn't have to compete with other males, but should be allowed as a kindness to compete with true woman XX, it seems without the true consent of those true XX women. It's misogynistic in my view.

The IOC have got it wrong. Simple. Now let's see how they get out of the mess they have created. I totally agree that all women should refuse to fight. The Italian boxer was rightly scared but SO BRAVE. Based on what I heard today, boxing is likely to be removed from future Olympics. They took out standing long jump, tug of war etc. Harmless events, literally. One day - hopefully very soon - people will say Why the hell did we allow people to hit each other? Especially XY hitting XX. IOC, sort this out NOW!!!!