Should there be a DSD category at the Paralympics?

there aren’t any trans women competing in this Olympics these two have DSD. so not sure why you brought trans women into a discussion about DSD?

Genuinely no idea. The 2 in boxing don't claim trans identities, but reports state they are XY individuals. I presume that means dsd conditions. Laurel Hubbard (trans) hoofed a woman out of power lifting last Olympics, but I doubt Hubbard is in Paris this time due to age.

As I understand it, everyone is either male or female. A person with a DSD is still either male or female. It's just that physical observation might lead to a different conclusion, i. e looks female but is actually male. We now have more accurate ways of determining sex. So, people take part in sports according to their sex, not as they present.

You're being very selective about the dsd CAIS. I'm going to assume it means something to you personally, especially as you've been incredibly heavy handed with the "poor little girl" narrative all afternoon.

May I ask you to remember that there are other dsd conditions, and that athletes with them have already mounted podiums at various Olympics in gold, silver and bronze positions in various female events.

This isn't about you.

So you are saying that this entire situation with the IOC has been based on flawed information from a group of specialists writing the report.

That is remarkable.

Did Carole Hooven contact the authors to have that paper pulled? Because surely that paper is now false in its findings.

how many trans women are competing in the Olympics this year?

So the medical testing in that report that was from the group convincing the IOC that I just posted is false then?

7 competitors at the 1996 Olympics did not have CAIS? That would be remarkable if it is true.

What is the relevance of whether they are on a podium or not?

So you don’t have links to this evidence? Even though the logic and past statistics would indicate that there is some advantage?

Please show the evidence that advantage is a myth based on conflated information.

ww.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

From the article "At the time of testing, all female athletes at the Atlanta Games were offered a questionnaire written in both English and French asking whether in their view testing of females should be continued in future Olympics and whether or not they were made anxious by the testing procedure.18Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued and 94% indicated that they were not made anxious by the procedure. Forty-six athletes were made "anxious" by the testing requirements that preceded their competitive events. No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed. While a similar proportion of females failed the test as in previous Olympics (Table 2), it is noteworthy that on this occasion no false positive tests were found and no athlete was barred from competition.'

So, 82% of the women answered that they felt sex testing should continue when surveyed at the 1996 Olympics. This was ignored.

In 1996, 8 of the 'female' competitors were found to have a DSD. 7 were CAIS and 1 was 5ARD. This was a rate of 1 in 423 and hence you will see it said that CAIS athletes are found in higher proportions in the female sports categories than in society in general.

That rate is significantly higher than the general population. As I said, it is a significant over representation to be denying that there is advantage.

And if the future studies show that even the small advantage that these male athletes have is quantifiable and is an advantage, then what? You will campaign that female athletes just have to accept this advantage?

Because you don’t believe that someone knowing that they don’t qualify for a protected category yet continuing to compete should take responsibility for their decisions? And if sex testing is brought back, they will know and will have to make that choice.

But you advocate that women just suck it up? And it is known that CAIS athletes are over represented in the female category in the Olympics. But those female people who lose their opportunities should just accept this? Is that what you believe?

I could cry for all the females sat at home on the sofa whilst a male, trans identified or dsd affected, takes her spot at the Olympics.

I'd suggest, by the numbers known currently, that that statistic is more than 1 in 40,000. There's at least 2 individuals in the boxing.

But they're just women, so don't matter that much.

Edited for spelling

Sure.

And your point is?

I also didn’t say they were looking for ‘men’.

They knew exactly who to target and where to find them and what to look for. I don’t think anyone will deny it. You can call them female athletes, but they were looking for those who are male with particular DSDs.