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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surprisingly clear news article from Australia re XY humans competing at Olympics in female sports

182 replies

StealthSpinach · 31/07/2024 01:38

I was extremely surprised to see such a clear, well articulated article in an Australian newspaper.

I was not surprised to see TWAW from IOC representatives.

I truly hope the article writers (named on the website) do not get abuse and vitriol - although I doubt that will be the case, unfortunately.

I do hope the writers publish any abuse they do receive.

If any females are physically or otherwise hurt by males (XY/DSD inclusive), I hope every TWAW IOC official endorsing their inclusion is held responsible.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics/paris-olympics-2024-xy-factor-puts-games-in-turmoil/news-story/11e7a22a6514709eb1d538eebeceb0ac

‘This is a disgrace’: Boxing gender debate splits Olympics

Leading Australian boxing figures have labelled the decision to allow two boxers to compete at the Olympics who have previously been banned because of high testosterone levels as extremely dangerous. SUBSCRIBE TO READ MORE.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics/paris-olympics-2024-xy-factor-puts-games-in-turmoil/news-story/11e7a22a6514709eb1d538eebeceb0ac

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LilyBartsHatShop · 31/07/2024 08:35

I have never really read the sports section of the newspaper, is it common for an article to be authored by four jounalists?
I'm just wondering if they're trying to make it harder for the IOC (or even activists) to sideline and penalise them. One of those journalists is with the Courier Mail, two are with the Australian, and one is editor at large with the Daily Telegraph (Sydney News Corp paper).
I think News Corp are indicating that they'll back their journos on this. But maybe I'm being optimistic.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 31/07/2024 08:33

Does anyone know what powers the IOC have to enforce their reporting guidelines?

I assume they could withdraw access rights from individual journalists or even whole media organisations (I can't see them.doing the latter- it would draw far more attention to the issue). But it seems unlikely they would have any wider sanctions available.

Rightsraptor · 31/07/2024 08:29

I'm assuming the Algerian is Muslim, however nominally, and I'd understood that Islam considers it shameful for a man to pretend to be a woman.

This used to get my back up because I focused on the 'woman equals shame' bit, but now I think I'm starting to see the reasoning behind it.

StealthSpinach · 31/07/2024 08:26

191 comments now - with the vast and overwhelming majority supporting women, and calling for single sex sport.

Given the comments and reactions, when people actually hear of the travesty of XY individuals competing in the female category in boxing or any other sport, they are clear in denouncing it as unacceptable.

Media organisations have covered this ideology up, refused to publish articles about the impact of gender identity ideology on (especially) women and children, feted transgenderism and decried women who defended their rights as nazis and bigots. The mainstream media in Australia has participated in silencing women with legitimate concerns for their safety, spaces and dignity.

I hope this starts a flood of articles in the mainstream media, about all the issues and problems of this ideology…

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BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 08:21

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 08:20

A difference of sex development. A medical condition.

In the case of some male athletes, such as those with 5ARD, they may have been categorised as girls when they were born because they might have a malformed penis and they could have a short vagina, with undescended testes. This is the documented condition that Caster Semenya has. Those athletes go through male puberty though if they still retain their testes and have normal male hormone combinations and testosterone levels.

Edited

www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 08:20

Danfromdownunder · 31/07/2024 08:18

Sorry what is DSD please?

A difference of sex development. A medical condition.

In the case of some male athletes, such as those with 5ARD, they may have been categorised as girls when they were born because they might have a malformed penis and they could have a short vagina, with undescended testes. This is the documented condition that Caster Semenya has. Those athletes go through male puberty though if they still retain their testes and have normal male hormone combinations and testosterone levels.

BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 08:18

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 07:53

She was instrumental in a complaint to Jon Pike’s uni about Pike’s views on male athletes in female sport’s categories.

https://x.com/runthinkwrite/status/1818055291298033887?s=46&t=HTxp6zCd4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

sorry, I am on my phone so it is too hard to cut and paste for those without Twitter.

Edited

Ah. A true believer. In that case, her quotes are disingenuous and promote misinformation. How unethical!

Danfromdownunder · 31/07/2024 08:18

Sorry what is DSD please?

Toseland · 31/07/2024 08:11

I just can't believe the official argument is that their passports show an "F for Female"!

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 08:10

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 07:46

I believe she is informed, she chooses to not accept the evidence. I think I have seen Dr Hilton discuss this with her on Twitter. She has direct access to people who can go through it all in depth. She has chosen to deny the evidence.

Exactly so, unfortunately.

Sall Grover has started a weekly twitter podcast, one of the aims of which is to platform the women who are fighting all this nonsense, to try to counter the visibility of the women like Madeleine Pape who are colluding. Male social commentators are starting to get it (a few got it all along) and are speaking about it - as in this article - but because their voices are amplified over women's, it will be framed as men saving these silly women from themselves.

NotBadConsidering · 31/07/2024 08:03

We don’t know they are DSD.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 08:01

Retiredfromthere · 31/07/2024 06:50

Are journalists becoming fed up at having been gagged by IOC on reporting this? There are two things happening .. DSD athletes competing (newsworthy). IOC setting in place media guidelines to stop this being clearly reported.

Are we seeing clear explanations because of the media restrictions? Journalists may have to defend later against IOC actions against them?

Maybe the journalists have the belief that News Limited will stand up for them against any attempt at pushback from the IOC.

I would be surprised if Fox has not/ will not soon be vocal on this particular story. Have they done segments on this yet?

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 07:53

BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 07:16

Madeleine Pape sounds woefully uninformed. She needs to read the more recent literature on male advantage post-transition before spouting off in the media.

She was instrumental in a complaint to Jon Pike’s uni about Pike’s views on male athletes in female sport’s categories.

https://x.com/runthinkwrite/status/1818055291298033887?s=46&t=HTxp6zCd4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

sorry, I am on my phone so it is too hard to cut and paste for those without Twitter.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 07:46

BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 07:16

Madeleine Pape sounds woefully uninformed. She needs to read the more recent literature on male advantage post-transition before spouting off in the media.

I believe she is informed, she chooses to not accept the evidence. I think I have seen Dr Hilton discuss this with her on Twitter. She has direct access to people who can go through it all in depth. She has chosen to deny the evidence.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 07:43

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 06:41

Thanks so much for the archive version.
Does the Courier have a wide readership?

I grew up reading it. It is part of News Limited so I expect that article will ripple through all of the News Limited state level newspapers, maybe even in ‘the Australian’ in some version, maybe spliced by other journos.

StealthSpinach · 31/07/2024 07:28

@Snowypeaks - The Courier-Mail is South East Queensland’s main newspaper, read throughout Queensland - so that is a positive.

The article also appearing on news.com.au is also excellent, as is a well known news source and has a wide readership (free news).

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AlisonDonut · 31/07/2024 07:17

It really is about time that journalists started saying words that mean the things they mean rather than the opposite and hoping people interpret it the right way.

BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 07:16

Madeleine Pape sounds woefully uninformed. She needs to read the more recent literature on male advantage post-transition before spouting off in the media.

BettyFilous · 31/07/2024 07:14

Retiredfromthere · 31/07/2024 06:50

Are journalists becoming fed up at having been gagged by IOC on reporting this? There are two things happening .. DSD athletes competing (newsworthy). IOC setting in place media guidelines to stop this being clearly reported.

Are we seeing clear explanations because of the media restrictions? Journalists may have to defend later against IOC actions against them?

These reporters may have decided if they’re going to be sanctioned by the IOC for wrongspeak anyway they may as well report as explicitly and clearly as possible.

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 07:12

We have to hope that they realise that this is too big a story to sit on, especially because it's boxing.
If one or two media outlets step out of line, others may follow for fear of being scooped.

Shame on you, Madeleine Pape and the IOC.

Retiredfromthere · 31/07/2024 06:50

Are journalists becoming fed up at having been gagged by IOC on reporting this? There are two things happening .. DSD athletes competing (newsworthy). IOC setting in place media guidelines to stop this being clearly reported.

Are we seeing clear explanations because of the media restrictions? Journalists may have to defend later against IOC actions against them?

SinnerBoy · 31/07/2024 06:49

I watched some clips of the Algerian guy beating his female opponent, earlier. It was absolutely awful, how these moronic ideologues can see that and go, "Yup, all fine." is absolutely beyond me. They wouldn't let a heavyweight fight a welterweight, for almost exactly the same reasons.

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 06:41

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 04:42

Thanks Spinach.

That is a breath of fresh air from the Courier. It is great to see Jeff Fenech speak out so plainly and Tukel althoughy, I doubt either of those men would be anything but plain speaking about this situation. Both of them would quickly respond to being told that these fighters are male athletes. Hence why language around sex categories of bodies and pronouns are so vital.

When you strip away the obfuscating language and pronouns, the article shows Madeleine Pape’s words to be ideological, misogynistic and inherently negligent towards female athletes in the face of the reality of her position. This article highlights who is responsible for this dangerous situation - the IOC, and where their priorities are. Inclusion at the cost of safety and fairness.

It is remarkable to see an article that isn’t left meaningless due to pronouns and false phrases.

https://archive.is/Htt3H

Well done those journos!

Thanks so much for the archive version.
Does the Courier have a wide readership?

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 06:36

Just copy the URL of the page and go to archive.is or archive.ph or archive.md and follow your nose. Paste it in the red box and click the button.

PoppySeedBagelRedux · 31/07/2024 06:29

Can someone advise how to archive please?