Surprisingly clear news article from Australia re XY humans competing at Olympics in female sports

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

Madeleine Pape sounds woefully uninformed. She needs to read the more recent literature on male advantage post-transition before spouting off in the media.

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

Christinapple

They're men. Some men get into women's sports via the trans ticket, these men are doing it via the DSD ticket.

https://www.outsports.com/2024/7/30/24098698/imane-khelif-lin-yu%E2%80%91ting-paris-olympics-boxing-gender-test/

From what I understand, neither of the named women are male or trans. Just because they failed the initial tests doesn't mean they are male.

One is also from Algeria where gay or trans people face legal challenges and discrimination. So it would seem unlikely for a trans person to emerge from such a country and compete in a very public contest.

"The two women have been at the center of the continuing controversy regarding the inclusion in the female sports category of women who have naturally elevated levels of testosterone. To be clear, these two women are not reportedly transgender, though anti-trans activists like Riley Gaines are making the claim they are men. These athletes may be intersex."

From another article

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1930058/Derek-Chisora-Imane-Khelif-Olympics-2024

"Mark Adams, a spokesperson for the governing body, said on Tuesday: "These athletes have competed many times before for many years. They haven't just suddenly arrived. They competed in Tokyo. The federation needs to make the rules to make sure that there is fairness."

Summary- They are both women even if they may not initially appear to be in certain tests, a lot of thought and consideration has been made to permit them to continue competing.

https://www.outsports.com/2024/7/30/24098698/imane-khelif-lin-yu%E2%80%91ting-paris-olympics-boxing-gender-test/

From what I understand, neither of the named women are male or trans. Just because they failed the initial tests doesn't mean they are male.

One is also from Algeria where gay or trans people face legal challenges and discrimination. So it would seem unlikely for a trans person to emerge from such a country and compete in a very public contest.

"The two women have been at the center of the continuing controversy regarding the inclusion in the female sports category of women who have naturally elevated levels of testosterone. To be clear, these two women are not reportedly transgender, though anti-trans activists like Riley Gaines are making the claim they are men. These athletes may be intersex."

From another article

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1930058/Derek-Chisora-Imane-Khelif-Olympics-2024

"Mark Adams, a spokesperson for the governing body, said on Tuesday: "These athletes have competed many times before for many years. They haven't just suddenly arrived. They competed in Tokyo. The federation needs to make the rules to make sure that there is fairness."

Summary- They are both women even if they may not initially appear to be in certain tests, a lot of thought and consideration has been made to permit them to continue competing.

Jarmila Kratochvílová of Czechoslovakia broke the 800 m world record with a time of 1:53.28 in 1983.

She was, apparently, 'a late developer" - she was 32 when she set her world records. Isn't that extraordinary, eh?

Gosh spinach. This is an extraordinary claim from this IOC employee, on the Australian Olympic site!

“Some experts further argued that to compete as a woman, Semenya should be subject to invasive gender testing, drugs and procedures to reduce her natural testosterone. Some athletes who have undergone these procedures now have lifelong side effects like osteoporosis, brittle bones and the early onset of menopause”

No male person goes through menopause.

Apparently, we should be placing Semenya on a pedestal, similarly to Usain Bolt, for all SHE has done for women’s sport… according to Pape.

Seriously!

https://www.olympics.com.au/news/dr-madeleine-pape-how-a-career-ending-injury-led-to-a-personal-pilgrimage-and-a-new-voice-for-gender-eligibility-in-sport/

The 800 metres? In 2016, at the Rio Olympics 3 male athletes with differences of sex development won all three medals. However, the records were all set in the 1980s. By women from countries within the Soviet block.

Sorry, what is this event? Do you have sources? As far as I know women can compete with men only in ultra running and equestrian sports.

I wonder if Madeleine Pape feels so free about allowing male athletes to compete because no female athletes have broken records for her own event, the 800 m, since the 1980s. And those records are held by countries under Soviet control at the time. And even with all the modern training regimens and kit remain unbroken.

Even unbroken by male athletes.

Makes me think. If those women were at the peak of their fitness and perhaps on supplements that were undetected at the time, they are still beating those male athletes who are apparently in peak fitness running the 800m with their testosterone and all.

191 comments now - with the vast and overwhelming majority supporting women, and calling for single sex sport.

Given the comments and reactions, when people actually hear of the travesty of XY individuals competing in the female category in boxing or any other sport, they are clear in denouncing it as unacceptable.

Media organisations have covered this ideology up, refused to publish articles about the impact of gender identity ideology on (especially) women and children, feted transgenderism and decried women who defended their rights as nazis and bigots. The mainstream media in Australia has participated in silencing women with legitimate concerns for their safety, spaces and dignity.

I hope this starts a flood of articles in the mainstream media, about all the issues and problems of this ideology…

I have never really read the sports section of the newspaper, is it common for an article to be authored by four jounalists?
I'm just wondering if they're trying to make it harder for the IOC (or even activists) to sideline and penalise them. One of those journalists is with the Courier Mail, two are with the Australian, and one is editor at large with the Daily Telegraph (Sydney News Corp paper).
I think News Corp are indicating that they'll back their journos on this. But maybe I'm being optimistic.

I'm assuming the Algerian is Muslim, however nominally, and I'd understood that Islam considers it shameful for a man to pretend to be a woman.

This used to get my back up because I focused on the 'woman equals shame' bit, but now I think I'm starting to see the reasoning behind it.

Thanks Spinach.

That is a breath of fresh air from the Courier. It is great to see Jeff Fenech speak out so plainly and Tukel althoughy, I doubt either of those men would be anything but plain speaking about this situation. Both of them would quickly respond to being told that these fighters are male athletes. Hence why language around sex categories of bodies and pronouns are so vital.

When you strip away the obfuscating language and pronouns, the article shows Madeleine Pape’s words to be ideological, misogynistic and inherently negligent towards female athletes in the face of the reality of her position. This article highlights who is responsible for this dangerous situation - the IOC, and where their priorities are. Inclusion at the cost of safety and fairness.

It is remarkable to see an article that isn’t left meaningless due to pronouns and false phrases.

https://archive.is/Htt3H

Well done those journos!