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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surprisingly clear news article from Australia re XY humans competing at Olympics in female sports

182 replies

StealthSpinach · 31/07/2024 01:38

I was extremely surprised to see such a clear, well articulated article in an Australian newspaper.

I was not surprised to see TWAW from IOC representatives.

I truly hope the article writers (named on the website) do not get abuse and vitriol - although I doubt that will be the case, unfortunately.

I do hope the writers publish any abuse they do receive.

If any females are physically or otherwise hurt by males (XY/DSD inclusive), I hope every TWAW IOC official endorsing their inclusion is held responsible.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics/paris-olympics-2024-xy-factor-puts-games-in-turmoil/news-story/11e7a22a6514709eb1d538eebeceb0ac

‘This is a disgrace’: Boxing gender debate splits Olympics

Leading Australian boxing figures have labelled the decision to allow two boxers to compete at the Olympics who have previously been banned because of high testosterone levels as extremely dangerous. SUBSCRIBE TO READ MORE.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/olympics/paris-olympics-2024-xy-factor-puts-games-in-turmoil/news-story/11e7a22a6514709eb1d538eebeceb0ac

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OldCrone · 31/07/2024 11:01

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:22

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

The initial gender testing which showed they had XY chromosomes and male testosterone levels?

How would a woman fail those tests?

Chersfrozenface · 31/07/2024 11:00

Datun · 31/07/2024 10:48

Can someone point me to where it says they're not allowed to report on this?

I know the IOC seem to control everything, but where have they said and because of that, we're censoring this issue.

This is from the IOC
https://olympics.com/ioc/gender-equality/portrayal-guidelines?irclickid=yIX25t3r6xyPRmPXNU0KSVJCUkCz0nURm0AJ2U0&irgwc=1&_s=afl_impact&utm_source=Impact&utm_medium=affiliates&SSAID=10078

"Fair, inclusive and non-discriminatory portrayal of transgender sportspeople and athletes with sex variations
Reporting on, communicating about, and interviewing transgender and non-binary people in sport and athletes with sex variations requires care and responsibility to prevent any kind of discrimination. An annex has been added to the IOC Portrayal Guidelines to offer some key definitions, good practices and considerations to promote a more accurate, responsible, respectful, and inclusive coverage and communication of members of these communities, in line with the IOC Framework on Fairness, Inclusion and Non-Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity and Sex Variations, released in November 2021."

If you go to the page linked above, you can scroll to the bottom of this text and download the Framework document.

Cailin66 · 31/07/2024 10:58

Danfromdownunder · 31/07/2024 08:18

Sorry what is DSD please?

Put simply, it is men who are born with something slightly wrong with them in their sexual organs. But they are men, they are XY. In some countries because it is considered shocking a man has no balls etc, the doctors suggest to the parents to bring them up as a girl. Those with these disorders then claim to be women in sports, because even though they are not brilliant at say boxing in this case, they will still be better than women because being male and having gone thru male puberty makes them stronger than women. Smart sports couches will actually look for these males to compete in the women's category. The runner Caster Semenya is one, and he has fathered a baby with his wife. In his case his testes were undecended.

Beamur · 31/07/2024 10:58

Guardian article about this
Rules regarding who should compete in the female category have been hotly contested in recent years. But there has been less debate about combat sports, where the risk of serious injury and even death is far higher. Scientific research has also found that the average punching power is 162% greater in those who have gone through male puberty compared to females

Why males pack a powerful punch

Elk have antlers. Rams have horns. In the animal kingdom, males develop specialized weapons for competition when winning a fight is critical. Humans do too, according to new research. Fighting may have long been a part of our evolutionary history.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205132404.htm#:~:text=But%20even%20with%20roughly%20uniform,with%20time%20and%20with%20purpose

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 10:57

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:35

With all information available and the fact they have competed before, they are permitted to continue competing.

I'm sure the people who make the decisions at the Olympics know better than any of us.

Being able to have competed before is not a defence when the regulations change with the international federation.

This is yet another failure of the IOC. They have excluded the international federation from being involved and therefore have completely ignored the IBA's regulations.

But sure.... the IOC with their very poorly formed regulations have allowed them to participate in the past.

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:56

"Instead, the IOC is offering media outlets alternatives to words and phrases they might be tempted to use in their coverage of topics related to gender reassignment and non-binary athletes. Examples: girl/boy, woman/man, transgender girl/boy, transgender woman/man, or even transgender person.

“It is always better to focus on a person's actual gender, rather than questioning their identity by referring to the gender category listed on their birth certificate", explains the IOC document.In fact, the issue of transgender athletes should not occupy much of the media at the Paris 2024 Games."

https://www.francsjeux.com/en/2024/06/10/for-paris-2024-the-io-asks-the-media-to-treat-women-better/101320/#:~:text=“It%20is%20always%20better%20to,at%20the%20Paris%202024%20Games.

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 10:52

Also

"Mark Adams, a spokesperson for the governing body, said on Tuesday: "These athletes have competed many times before for many years. They haven't just suddenly arrived. They competed in Tokyo. The federation needs to make the rules to make sure that there is fairness."

This is not a strong defence at all.

This means that these males competed in Tokyo and many other times and put female boxers in danger. And the IOC was complicit in this. The IBA states that all boxers may be subject to 'gender testing' to ensure boxers are the same sex. The IBA has not been involved in organising the boxing at either Tokyo or Paris. The current IBA rules were uploaded in 2023 in any case. That is after Tokyo and at the time when these boxers were reportedly excluded.

So, this statement by Mark Adams is meaningless as a defence.

I think it is quite clear by now that your statement "From what I understand", shows just how little you do understand.

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:52

"Paris 2024 Brand Protection Programme

As part of the agreement to host the Olympic Games, the Paris 2024 Organising Committee and the national government of France pledged to the IOC that it would abide by the Olympic Charter and protect all Olympic-related intellectual properties.All intellectual properties, including emblems, logos and designations relating to the Olympic and Paralympic Games, were therefore protected in France by national law.

The use of these intellectual properties for the Olympic Games Paris 2024 was managed by the Paris 2024 Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Permission must be granted by this organisation prior to use.

The IOC and the Paris 2024 Organising Committee have implemented a global Brand Protection Programme consisting of monitoring the internet to detectand act against any infringing use of Olympic properties, and to collaborate with law enforcement authorities against counterfeit goods"

Datun · 31/07/2024 10:48

Can someone point me to where it says they're not allowed to report on this?

I know the IOC seem to control everything, but where have they said and because of that, we're censoring this issue.

borntobequiet · 31/07/2024 10:46

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:22

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

You just need to say women.

Datun · 31/07/2024 10:46

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:39

The IOC is the owner of the global media rights for the Olympic Games – including broadcasts on television, radio and digital platforms – and is responsible for allocating Olympic media rights to media companies throughout the world through the negotiation of media rights agreements.

https://olympics.com/ioc/media-rights-holders

Edited

The IOC is the owner of the global media rights for the Olympic Games – including broadcasts on television, radio and digital platforms – and is responsible for allocating Olympic media rights to media companies throughout the world through the negotiation of media rights agreements.

Olympic Broadcasting Services
Olympic Broadcasting Services (OBS) is responsible for providing the international television and radio signals from the Games to all Media Rights-Holders around the world. The IOC established OBS in 2001 to serve as the permanent host broadcaster for the Olympic Games, eliminating the need to continually rebuild the broadcast operation for each edition of the Games. OBS ensures that the high standards of Olympic Games coverage are consistently maintained from one edition of the Games to the next.

They control all the rights and provide all the signals?

Fuck me.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:44

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:43

I suspect that the IOC also had something to do with the over-emphasis on 'Queer' in the opening ceremony.

They are utterly captured and corrupt.

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:43

I suspect that the IOC also had something to do with the over-emphasis on 'Queer' in the opening ceremony.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:43

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:39

The IOC is the owner of the global media rights for the Olympic Games – including broadcasts on television, radio and digital platforms – and is responsible for allocating Olympic media rights to media companies throughout the world through the negotiation of media rights agreements.

https://olympics.com/ioc/media-rights-holders

Edited

Someone needs to whistle blow on this.

I know we can't expect the BBC to take a principled stand.

But just imagine what would happen if the BBC reported on this issue, got its rights revoked, and then said, "Sorry viewers, you'll get no more coverage of the Olympics because we got banned for telling you that the IOC lets men compete in women's categories, including in the boxing which is clearly dangerous."

Just imagine.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/07/2024 10:43

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:38

That goes without saying, but what authority do they actually have over the media?

Presumably it's a similar authority as the trans lobby groups who were allowed to write the trans guidelines for the UK media to ensure they uncritically report trans issues according to their own demands?

I keep waiting for the press to start reporting accurately and it's starting but there's still to much "she" for men etc.

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:42

“These are Games that truly inspire and excite us, urging OBS to push the boundaries, not only in our broadcasting, but also in the way we convey the stories of athletes, sports, the city and the host country.”
Yiannis Exarchos, CEO, OBS

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:39

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:38

That goes without saying, but what authority do they actually have over the media?

The IOC is the owner of the global media rights for the Olympic Games – including broadcasts on television, radio and digital platforms – and is responsible for allocating Olympic media rights to media companies throughout the world through the negotiation of media rights agreements.

https://olympics.com/ioc/media-rights-holders

Olympic Media Rights-Holders - TV, Radio, Mobile and Internet Platforms

Official home of the IOC. Find the latest news and featured stories, information about IOC members plus Olympic principles, values and legacy.

https://olympics.com/ioc/media-rights-holders

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:39

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 10:36

Just conjecture, but if the IOC sell the TV rights to broadcasters and issue entry passes to journalists to be present at events, then those broadcast rights and passes may have conditions attached?

Then that's something that needs blowing wide open.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:38

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:37

The IOC are as corrupt and untrustworthy now as the U.N.

That goes without saying, but what authority do they actually have over the media?

Shortshriftandlethal · 31/07/2024 10:37

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:33

Can anyone explain what authority the IOC actually have over the worldwide media?

Surely the media don't actually answer to the IOC and can report whatever they like?

The IOC are as corrupt and untrustworthy now as the U.N.

Snowypeaks · 31/07/2024 10:36

Just conjecture, but if the IOC sell the TV rights to broadcasters and issue entry passes to journalists to be present at events, then those broadcast rights and passes may have conditions attached?

puffyisgood · 31/07/2024 10:35

Helleofabore · 31/07/2024 10:31

Female people don't fail 'gender testing'. All it takes is a cheek swab for nearly every case. However, female people will fail 'performance drug' testing. Those performance drug using female people will be the only female athletes to fail a 'gender test' due to 'high testosterone'.

What part of this do you simply not understand after thread upon thread that you have posted on about this topic of male athletes in female sports categories?

Let me just repost this chart. It obviously needs to be posted every couple of pages on these threads.

simply put, there are two main organs in the body that produce testosterone, namely the ovaries and the testes. only testes are valent of producing really high male levels of testosterone, and without exception all of these athletes who've been identified as 'intersex' have healthy functioning testes and no ovaries at all.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:35

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:35

With all information available and the fact they have competed before, they are permitted to continue competing.

I'm sure the people who make the decisions at the Olympics know better than any of us.

Then why are they making such terrible decisions?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 31/07/2024 10:35

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:22

They are cisgendered women who failed the initial gender testing, yes it can happen.

And Yes I know people with gender critical beliefs dislike the 30 year old term cisgendered, but it's use is appropriate here to clarify they are not men or trans.

Not on this sub forum, where the words "women" and "female" will suffice.

Trans women are not women and they are not female.

Christinapple · 31/07/2024 10:35

With all information available and the fact they have competed before, they are permitted to continue competing.

I'm sure the people who make the decisions at the Olympics know better than any of us.