Surprisingly clear news article from Australia re XY humans competing at Olympics in female sports

Blimey.

I just got to the part where Pape changed the direction of her thoughts which were initially in agreeable that Semenya shouldn't be racing against female athletes!

“During my studies, we read a book written by a feminist biologist called Anne Fausto-Sterling,” Pape said.
“It's about the complexity of biological sex and how our ideas about sex as a strict binary have become reflected in science. Fausto-Sterling used the case of sport as her opening example.
“She explained how the actions of sports governing bodies in fact reveal the complexity of biological sex, even though their various interventions are aimed at trying to obscure it,” she continued.
“I realised that in 2009, when I competed against Caster Semenya, I had an opportunity to learn something, but back then I had no idea that there was this history of previous efforts to regulate who gets to compete as a female athlete.

Fausto-Sterling! Who famously has confessed to making up sex categories as a joke?

FFS. The ONLY regulation about who could compete as a female before the IOC removed sex testing was to be female!

Here is the background.

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

Summary

A desire to protect female athletes from unfair competition and to reduce public innuendoes about the sexual identity of trained female athletes resulted in on-site sexverification at the Olympic Games and other competitions beginning in the 1960s. These good intentions resulted at first in demeaning public scrutiny in "nude parades." Attempts at less invasive approaches resulted in scientifically invalid methods using buccal cells for Barr bodies and later PCR-based analyses of Y-specific DNA. These approaches stigmatized females with such conditions as androgen insensitivity, XY mosaicism, and
5-a-reductase-deficiency. Although laboratory-based sex de-
termination caused clear scientific and ethical injustices to fe- male athletes, and the IAAF discontinued the process, the IOC continued to defend their policy. Following the 1996 Centen- nial Olympic Games in Atlanta, strong voices arose from the IOC World Congress on Women and Sport, the Women's Sports Foundation, and the Athletes Commission of the IOC. These organizations reiterated to the IOC that chromosomal- based gender testing is irrelevant, costly, and highly discrimi- nating; that it has caused unknown numbers of female athletes emotional and social injury; and that on-site blanket gender verification via genetic screening at Olympic Games should be abolished. Its unnecessary cost was stated by those responsible for screening in Atlanta in 1996. In the summer of 1999, the IOC conditionally rescinded its 30-year requirement for on- site gender screening of all women entered in female-only events at the Olympic Games, starting with Sydney in 2000.We applaud the IOC's revision and its intent to protect the rights and privacy of female competitors and to maintain its stan- dards of fairness for all athletes. We endorse the continued education of athletes, sports governors, medical delegates, and team physicians concerning the biological complexities of sex differentiation. Since blanket, lab-based screening for gender and fair play is both medically unsound and functionally as well as ethically inconsistent, we hope that the policy stated for the Millennial Games in Sydney will remain.

It is only because of these male athletes that sex testing by way of swabs was stopped. No thought has been given to the symmetry of what these groups argued for. They argued for the rights and dignity of male people with little thought of how female athletes felt.

These are the authors back in 2000

Louis J.Elsas,MD',
Arne Ljungqvist,MD',
Malcolm A.Ferguson-Smith,MA,FRCP
JoeLeigh Simpson,MD',
Myron Genel,MD,
AlisonS.Carlson,BA
ElizabethFerris,MBBS',
Albert de la Chapelle,MD,PhD
Anke A. Ehrhardt, phD

So would I, but neither of those potential pieces of information are in the public domain, or relevant to whether he should be in female competition. He's male, end of.

That's true.

Although I'm pretty certain I read about another man who had the same DSD, who did father children. They had to extract sperm under a procedure, rather than in the 'normal way'.

But no, we don't know if they are biologically Semenya's children. But if I was a betting woman, I'd wager that they are.

We don't know whether or not Caster has fathered children or the state of his testes.. That's the speculation

Caster Semenya is on record as having a DSD that only affects males:

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_-redacted-_Semenya_ASA_IAAF.pdf

I do think that this era of activism around transgender athletes and people in general will be reviewed in the light of pseudoscience and how activists managed to convince so many people and organisations based on the principles of philosophical belief and no solid evidence. History will not look kindly back on this because how can it? How can the inclusion of a sub group that has such high risk to the group being coerced into including that group be considered righteous, except by believers of that philosophical principle?

And when the answers are clear as to who ultimately it benefits, it is never female people as a collective that benefit.

So.... who exactly does the inclusion of male athletes with medical conditions and philosophical beliefs benefit? The answer is clearly not the female half of the world's population in my mind.

However, I am open to anyone who can articulate a coherent and evidenced argument as to the benefits. If anyone has those arguments please post them.

Yes, I'm sure they'll try. I still think it will be telling though

But the IOC will control images of the fight, presumably?

I think the Mail and The Telegraph will have something to say. Maybe they're waiting for the actual fight tomorrow

@Datun the IOC trying to censor the press will backfire spectacularly, in my opinion.

You’d think so. I can’t believe the press are not up in arms about being gagged. But then, look at the BBC…. and the “house style” of various publications and news outlets telling them what they can and cannot say about this subject. The journalists and writers just seem to accept it.

You always make me laugh Wicked, sum things up in one line so well, so often🤣

Dumb as a fucking stick.

"Scientifically illiterate"

The wholesale trans washing of the entire event is going to backfire.

It's more transactivation than I've seen in years

The IOC might be stopping the press talking about transgender athletes, but they can't stop the press talking about the IOC talking about transgender athletes!

Thank you Cher.

i've never read anything so infuriating all my life. The entire fucking framework is about fairness. And goes out of its way to bleat about sexism, essentially.

"The physical physiological and mental well-being of athletes should be prioritised when establishing eligibility criteria"

But athletes should be able to compete in whatever gender identity they want. And you can't test for what sex they are?

Have I got that right??

First match is tomorrow; the other on Friday:

Nobody has an "actual gender". Gender is made up nonsense.

The only people who share the same gender identity as trans women are other trans women, so give them their own category if you must, but how they identify is utterly irrelevant to actual female athletes.

Apparently though, a person who has previously dismissed women having cream pies thrown in their face, or silly string sprayed at them as being 'just like in comedy shows', may feel that that overwhelming difference in punching power (without mentioning at all female bones being more prone to breaking, particularly in the face and female more delicate brain fibres prone to concussive and other brain damage) is worth dismissing with 'but they are women', when they are clearly male people who have failed a sex test with the IBA.

From the "IOC Social and Digital Media Guidelines for persons accredited to the
Games" for Rio. I can't find the equivalent document for Paris at the moment but in this document, section 7 Infringements says
"The IOC reserves the right to take any appropriate measures with respect to infringements of these guidelines. The measures may include requiring the removal of any infringing content, withdrawing the accreditation of the responsible person or organisation, taking legal action or imposing other sanctions pursuant to the Olympic Charter."

I think you should delete this post. It has inaccuracies about what DSDs are and you speculate about a specific individual.

The poster who asked is better off looking at the link to the NHS website that was provided.

Like Mark Adams, who thinks that a man having a passport which says he's female, actually makes him female?

I have no idea what the rules are in Algeria or Taiwan, but in the UK, all a man has to do if he wants his passport to say he's female, is send Helen Webberley a few quid to write a letter saying he really, really wants to be a woman, and he can get a 'female' marker on his passport.

Offering alternative words... better to focus on a person's actual gender

Although obviously designed to disguise what's going on, this doesn't seem like a hard and fast 'if you don't do what we say, we'll withdraw your media rights'.