Mandated to give my ten year old's pronouns - how to respond

Yup, nobody ever felt that the change in meaning of “gay” was forced on them, nosirree

They’ll still be male or female at that point

I’m beginning to wonder if some of the posters on this thread understand how babies are made

The idea that humans can’t change sex is ideological?

I am so boggled that someone would actually type that that I had to resort to old skool Mumsnet emojis. Yikes

Asking OP to specify what pronouns others should apply to her female-sexed child is equally absurd as her veterinary practice asking for the "preferred pronouns" of her (presumably either male or female) dog. And yet it's safe to assume that even lacking such a form the vet won't refer to the dog as "it."

@GrumpyPanda lol let’s try this discussion again when dogs have evolved to the point where they can write novels and create “legal entities” and we’ll see what ideas they have about identity and social constructs then

People are flexible and can stand the idea that words develop and shift meaning over time. That’s how language works
Yes, language changes organically over time. Efforts to artificially force language change do not usually end well.

OK - that's an ideological stance though - it's not a linguistic issue as you initially said.

People are using linguistics to cover up what is essentially an ideological disagreement - so let's call a spade a spade.

I have no idea whether dogs separate biological sex and social gender constructs or not

deary, deary me

truly, gender ideology rots the brain

This

I would point out that children under the age of 18 cannot legally change sex, and it is therefore inappropriate to have any mandatory fields that relate to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, particularly in view of the conclusions of the Cass Report about social transitioning of children being a non-neutral act.

Look up the US meanings of Democratic and Republican and come back to me.

People are flexible and can stand the idea that words develop and shift meaning over time. That’s how language works

The form is going to be filled in by a parent who will just give the accurate pronouns for the child's sex, the ones they're using. It's not as if parents are going to read this section of the form out to a preschooler and then say "Oh look, actually you can decide to use any pronouns you want, are you a boy a girl or an it today?"

Your dog example is a bit weird. I have no idea whether dogs separate biological sex and social gender constructs or not. But humans do recognise that distinction, whether you like it or not, and have done for thousands of years.

Everyone has pronouns. It's a grammatical term. Presumably when you don't use your daughter's name you say she or her.

And words have meaning, that's why they are invented in the first place.
If you make them meaningless, we cannot communicate meaningfully.
By arguing that you "have" a name, therefore you "have" pronouns, you are using different meanings of the word "have" as if they were the same.
My name is not an attribute. My sex is.

Dishonesty and linguistic sleight of hand is the fuel of GII.

Edited to elucidate.

Funny how people have absolutely no problem remembering that their friend has gone from Miss Smith to Mrs Jones but shrivel up in a corner when she asks them to call her Joseph instead of Joanne.

ROFL - people have loads of trouble remembering when people change their name! And yes, if you not only change your name, but also change it to one that's traditionally for the opposite sex, that's another dose of dissonance that makes it harder - haven't you ever tried that thing where you have to read out colours but the words are coloured differently? It's really hard!

Also wondering how on earth people refusing to see that language is gendered would cope in a language that she's male and female words for inanimate objects, like Italian and Spanish do. "Strawberry" doesn't have a sex but is a female word in Italian. You would use a female pronoun as an object in a sentence instead of the neutral "it" to say "here's a strawberry, do you want it?" . Does this non sex based normal use of language destroy them?

Also hard! Just like people coming in the other direction, or from non-gendered languages find it hard to use the right pronouns, or use them at all - it's a language fundamental, really mentally taxing to mis-use.

the thing is, gender ideology is both bat shit and harmful

it's not like keeping quiet during a prayer, it's more like your friend bringing David Icke round to your house and insisting you and your family don tin foil hats and shun your neighbours as they're reptile people, or asking you to go along with FGM because 'everyone is different'

People do have names. Which they can choose, and which we use to refer to them.
They cannot choose their sex, which third-person pronouns (in the English language) indicate.

As a wise man once said, all words are made up.

I respect that others may feel they have a gender, but I don't.

Okay, so... just respect it then...?

I don't have a gender identity that's based on anything other than my ovaries but I'm cool with people who have different ideas. I have friends who are religious, I don't believe in their god but I will bow my head and STFU if they want to say grace at the table when they've cooked me a meal, and if a male-born trans person wants me to refer to her by female pronouns I will also do that as it is no skin off my nose.

If the same religious friend starts berating me about having sex outside of marriage or the same trans friend wants enter for a sports award in the same category as me, I'll have something to say about it.

Nobody has pronouns. Pronouns are a part of speech. They indicate the sex of the person you are talking about.

@Snowypeaks This is like saying names are just a part of speech indicating what to call the person you are talking about.

It's true, but it's also true that people have names. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Teenagers haven't always insisted on policing others' speech, "babes". And I don't have to tie myself in knots to go along with it.

Nope, but you chose your line of work babes and teenagers have been annoyingly militant about shit that has far more nuance than they understand since forever. I was like that, you were probably like that. Deal with it.

Also wondering how on earth people refusing to see that language is gendered would cope in a language that she's male and female words for inanimate objects, like Italian and Spanish do. "Strawberry" doesn't have a sex but is a female word in Italian. You would use a female pronoun as an object in a sentence instead of the neutral "it" to say "here's a strawberry, do you want it?" . Does this non sex based normal use of language destroy them?
I have never known a strawberry to get arsey about being misgendered.

The institution the OP’s child is about to join has opted out of the original sexed based meaning, otherwise they would not be asking - the form would just ask for ‘sex’ ( meaning male or female), or not even that.

The question is a red flag.

(edited for typo)

when you can describe for me the characteristics of the gender identity that all women, including Angela Merkel and Caitlyn Jenner share that makes them all women, I'll believe everyone has a gender identity

until then...nah

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