Mandated to give my ten year old's pronouns - how to respond

I don't mind people telling me their pronouns. I do mind them being offended if I get it wrong. I can't be expected to remember everyone's pronouns if they don't match up with their sex. I just don't have the brain power.

My daughter does not have preferred pronouns. There are sex based pronouns which it is obvious most people would use for her because she is female, but she has not chosen these and she has not stated how she wishes others to talk about her in the third person

So would she be happy to be called "he"?

Organisations are just trying to be inclusive, even of relatively small minorities.

//

Or the fashionable minorities. I'm pretty sure such allowances aren't made to accommodate all people who have a genuine non-feelz based need

I suspect that OP has used the word 'mandated' a bit flippantly. Her daughter has joined a hobby group. I doubt that they would make a big deal of it being left blank if OP strongly feels that way. A hobby group form isn't exactly a legal document.

I thought your response was fine at first, op but it looks like it might offer too many opportunities to derail and prevaricate. So I would be more direct about your concerns and yes, I would refer to Cass straight away.

Something along the lines of:
'Given that your form has already ascertained my child's sex, I can only conclude that your question about pronouns is a reference to gender identity.
'Why is this a mandatory question?
'May I remind you what the Cass Review says about the social transitioning of children:
(Insert relevant extract)'

It's amazing that for so many centuries the world has turned and folk have survived without announcing to all and sundry, their preferred pronouns.

And suddenly ...

Pina - but for loads of people it would be highly offensive to ask ‘their pronouns’. I’m a small woman with big tits and a female name, if anyone asks me ‘my pronouns’ I’ll think they are taking the piss, very stupid or implying that I look like a man, which is frankly rude. Luckily no one has asked me this because I don’t know how I’d reply, but it wouldn’t be polite. It is much more sensible to behave normally and assume that looks like a female is a female, and if we get it wrong I’m very confident that the gender confused person will tell us very quickly.

I would also question why providing information about preferred pronouns is compulsory. Data about religion/ethnicity/disabilities/sexual orientation/gender reassignment etc which are protected characteristics under the EA2010, can be collected for monitoring purposes whereas gender identity is not a protected characteristic.

Providing information on your protected characteristics is generally optional but being compelled to give information on gender identity never seems to be, particularly when there is never an option to tick 'none' or 'I don't believe in gender identity'.

It's still pandering to lies. Doesn't matter who's asking (or more often, demanding) it. Pronouns are sex-based, not a matter or preference (and humans are male or female, it's not a pick-and-mix stall). And none of this is benign. Look at women having to go to court because some man is raging that they won't call him "she". Look at courts insisting women call their rapists "she".

Yes - therefore I prefer people to refer to me as 'she' - therefore that was/ is my preferred pronoun. It's not a big deal.

95+ percent of people are simply going to choose the pronouns that match their child’s birth sex and the very small number of people for whom this is actually an issue for their child are going to feel relieved and included.

It’s possible to believe in both biology and inclusiveness. This is the least important territory when it comes to being gender critical.

I do understand this and agree on some levels, but it's not really asking them to choose. A parent can easily fill it in and put that their child is known as she/ he. It really doesn't need to be a complicated question.

I work with children and young people, and it's becoming quite hard to know how to refer to them.

Even if you think someone looks female/ male it's easy to get it wrong, and when you have to write notes about that person, you need to use a third person pronoun.

There are a large number of young people who go by 'they' at the moment. Whether or not that's right or wrong or whatever your opinion on it, it's just basic respect to get it right and address them correctly, in the same way as you would want to get their name right.

Asking their preferred pronouns just makes it easier to know what they want to be known as. It's not meant to offend.

Pina - but you didn’t ‘prefer’ people to refer to you as ‘she’, you just knew that that was correct grammar for your sex - if they said he they either had a poor understanding of grammar or were for some reason unable to tell what sex you were. The mistake was theirs and not in your control.

this particular linguistic preference

It's not just that though, is it?

A man who "prefers she" is telling people to pretend he's a woman.

Pandering to lies and delusions isn't courtesy.

Frankly, these days we live in a world where they absolutely may have, whether you think it’s a good idea or not. Organisations are just trying to be inclusive, even of relatively small minorities.

The daughter wasn’t even filling out this form, her parent/guardian was, so the question was asked as a matter of courtesy, nothing more.

I don't agree that it's easy or reasonable to expect everyone around you to change a fundamental of language, used to describe the world around you, because you 'prefer' the sound of one word over the other.

I certainly don't think we should be requiring 10 year olds to buy into the idea that it is reasonable, nor that they should think they have the power to make everyone bow to it.

It is a big deal, because it confuses instead of clarifying and making communication easier, it allows people to lie about their sex - and we see every day how that helps men erode women's rights.

Quite, under, the fact that a tiny number of people suffer from ‘gender distress’ doesn’t mean that all children should be asked to ‘choose their pronouns’. Just asking the question implies that there is some kind of choice or that it is something that needs thought. It implies that a complex mental health condition is somehow normal.

Cheeky - but kids don’t ‘prefer’ a pronoun and shouldn’t be spending time thinking about it.

When I was 10, I would have known that I wanted people to refer to me as 'she' rather than 'he' or anything else.

That's all 'preferred pronoun' means. It's not a big deal.

"Gender" means sex role stereotypes. What OP's daughter, like all mammals, has, is a sex. She's female. Third person pronouns refer to that, and aren't a matter of preference but of fact. The only confusing of the issue is by the people conflating sex and gender and claiming the roles override the biology.

I'm not trying to make it about anything.
Even if you think people have the right to choose pronouns that don't match their sex, it doesn't follow that it's a good idea to prompt ten year olds to do so, or assume that they already may have.

Cheeky - but that’s not the same. I also believe that people can dress how they want and if someone wants to be referred to as she when they are a man they can ask (but not force) people to do that. This is a very rare situation though! And it doesn’t mean that everyone has to ‘declare their pronouns’. In the case of a club like OPs dc wants to join the form should ask for name and sex. There should be space for special requirements somewhere anyway (health, allergies etc) and the person can say that they are trans or whatever in there, if not they can send an email. It really isn’t something that needs to be asked.

My son clearly prefers a pronoun, which is the one that matches his sex as it is apparently quite hard for people to pick it with a high degree of accuracy.

A fairly small number of children quite steadfastly prefer a pronoun that doesn’t match their sex and all your wishing it were otherwise won’t make it so.

Some adults prefer pronouns that are different to their sex and it may be easy or hard to tell that there is a mismatch. I’m happy to accommodate this particular linguistic preference though not some extended accommodations.

Nobody "has pronouns". They are part of the language people use about other people, not personal possessions.

That's irrational, talking about grammar as if it's something you have.