BBC More or less - are women more likely to die in disasters?

And haven't there been natural disasters, I'm thinking most recently of the earthquake in Nepal, where children are documented as surviving the disaster but then mysteriously disappearing afterwards?

The Titanic operated the 'Birkenhead drill' which was women and children first, from the Birkenhead disaster off the coast of S. Africa, where the men - soldiers - lined up on deck whilst the women and children (their wives and children) were put in the boats. The men had to swim, avoiding the sharks. Most survived.
The idea was that the men had a better chance of swimming ashore because of clothing and strength. Still true today, I think.
British registered ships were expected to follow this example - whether they did is moot.

Ah yes, I see.

And I agree, I don't think it's anything to do with being evil. Overcoming panic in people in situations like this requires quite a lot of discipline ahead of the incident.

At least it wasn't drag queens! The BBC seem obsessed with them.

Men will & have pushed women out of the way to get out of dangerous situations.

The Manchester Airport airplane fire was one example.

@TempestTost "How would that affect the male/female survival rate?"

The Estonia listed heavily very quickly (and I think capsized before sinking). According to survivors, you needed brute strength to climb up the hallways and upside down staircases. Also, no time, so whoever was down in the cheap accomodation had little time to get to the deck.

It's not that men are evil, but in a panic situation the evolutionary instinct to survive kicks in, and people would climb over each other to reach the door. It's not steered by the brain. I have been in a panic situation, and you're a passenger in your own body, watching what is happening.
Since men are stronger, they get out first.

The Wikipedia article on Estonia explains this a bit /links on.

Personal observation only, but I would suggest that young men, between 16 and 26 are the most selfish demographic on the planet. I can well imagine the majority of them running over others to survive.

I can't find a link, but remember hearing about plane crash survivors who escaped by just running over everyone else, they were all young men and apparently had to live with survivor guilt afterwards.

I remember reports from the Herald of Free Enterprise that there were young men scrambling over other people to get out, not helping anyone. This may be erroneous but that was scuttlebutt around Dover at the time.

Just listened to More or Less on the World Service (it isn't on the standard More or Less section). They've taken out any references to TW. Good news and thank you to all the terven who complained.

Re the Titanic. That was women and children first and captain going down with the ship but apparently that was the exception rather than the rule. Most problems at sea at the time saw women disproportionately drowning and men and particularly seafarers surviving.

This disaster is interesting (and horrific). Fire on a pleasure cruise. Families, women and children. The women were in heavy woolen clothing and they just drowned.

https://www.nyhistory.org/blogs/witness-to-tragedy-the-sinking-of-the-general-slocum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum

Aside from the last few minutes, the Titanic sank evenly and slowly. No listing. The officers were able to control the panic. People didn’t see others dying a drowning until the last moments.

The Estonia was completely different.

People are awkward about removing the bra of a woman in public.

I think “Annie” should wear a bra and have normal floppy breasts.

And yet they use boob-less dummies to practice on. Go figure.

the first expert they interviewed was quick to point out that transgender people are at a greater risk.
You’re kidding?! They said that?
Quite apart from the BBC obsession have with transgender people, can we really believe that the number of trans people who have died in disasters in developing countries is high enough to analyse statistically?

How would that affect the male/female survival rate?

in that podcast woman from the world bank said "the worst i've seen in specific age groups for specific disasters and specific contexts 4 times, 5 times but usually 1.5 to 2 times". she never said that it's "only x times". one can wonder why the 14 times myth lives on if the real number is smaller?
she also said that in developed countries more men die. as it should be evolutionarily. apparently. no mention of the ratio though.

Thatd be men ;)

I wondered if clothing had anything to do with it, too often women are clothed according to cultural norms in garments and shoes that are useless for running or climbing.

Young women are more likely to be sole survivors of plane crashes.

Thanks yes it was probably that one.

Also the Estonia sank in 40-50 minutes. The Titanic sank in 2 hours 40 minutes.

Yeah, I wouldn't underestimate physicality.

Nor that women will often stay with their children.

Although if you look at something like the Titanic disaster I think it's very notable that women and children had a much higher survival rate than men - Because of social norms which attempted to account for women's vulnerabilities.

However, in starvation/cold type of events, it's best to be a short, fat woman. The calorie demands of men are too high.

All things being equal women SHOULD outlive men in post-disaster times. Evolutionarily. So the fact that we don't is created, not natural.

Probably the ro-ro ferry Estonia. 852 people died. 137 survived, of those 111 were men, only 26 were women. Also no children and no-one over the age of 55 survived.