olympics question

The world has woken up to this. Bring it on, sunlight is a great disinfectant.

This is me being hopeful that the exposure that the Olympics gives to the insanity of men competing in female events will actually be helpful to putting an end to it.

Nikki Hiltz. A woman and a non-story.

That was Christine Mboma, for Namibia. Biologically male.

This is dreadful. It’s not just unfair, it’s dangerous.

But as this explains - we can’t always trust ‘assigned female at birth’ because that could be said of Caster Semenya but it was a mistake, he’s male.

I've no idea what boxing's rules are when it comes to DSDs. A quick Google of Ms Khelif's name does indeed yield results that are suggestive of a male DSD.

www.instagram.com/imane_khelif_10?igsh=MTl5em92OHh5dGxzaA==

Good article. Depressing, of course, but it makes clear the level of dishonesty from sport federations, not just the athletes.

That this is boxing is very alarming. I hope other federations threaten to sue if their women boxers are injured.

Reduxx are reporting on 2 boxers who are competing in the female category.

reduxx.info/breaking-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes/

Lots of males with 5 alpha reductase deficiency (5ARD) are incorrectly identified as female at birth due to ambiguous genitalia cause by non virulization.
It doesn't make them female.

It's possible they were "AFAB" but not actually genetically female.

5-alpha reductase deficiency: MedlinePlus Genetics

That not what it says. It says she was AFAB but a doctor hus refused to sign off on sex verification, for reasons we don't (and shouldn't) know.
Babies with indeterminate genitalia I think are more often AFAB so I'm guessing her biology isn't straightforward.

Banda's club Orlando Pride is currently leading the NWSL table. It absolutely matters.

I didn’t ask the question, I rolled my eyes at the ridiculousness of your suggestion, but can you explain how you think someone with those conditions you mentioned would be capable of being well enough to compete uninterrupted? In order for Banda to be female one or more of the following would need to be true:

1. elevated testosterone levels were found and Banda failed female sex verification on this test alone, despite the need for further clarity
2. further testing was done, it was confirmed with chromosomes that Banda is female, but still failed the verification test
3. Banda has a tumour, or PCOS, has 46XX chromosomes but still failed the verification test
4. Banda has a tumour or PCOS or something similar but has been well enough to continue playing at the top level
5. Banda has a tumour or PCOS or something similar but was required to suppress testosterone levels purely to be allowed to play again, not as part of the treatment of any underlying condition, which is contrary to the rules of most policies and hasn’t come out and said “I have XX chromosomes and PCOS this is unfair” and kept the clear injustice of it all quiet

OR

Banda is male, failed the female sex verification test for that reason after full testing, but FIFA can’t deal with the hassle of putting rules in place and have put it in the “too hard” basket (and we know they allow males in women’s football generally) allowing Banda to play in this tournament, hoping to not have to deal with it, like World Athletics did for years with Semenya. For years we were told Semenya had “naturally high female testosterone levels” and everyone then also claimed it could be from something like PCOS, also failing to explain how Semenya could win 800m races so easily with those conditions. Even after it was revealed Semenya has 5 alpha reductase deficiency and is male we still hear the same propaganda, and now we are hearing it about Banda.

What does it matter? Banda is just one player in one team, a not well fancied team at that. It matters because a) a Zambian woman should be there b) it’s unfair to other teams to have to play against any male at all and c) it’s an indication that we have to be massively vigilant because sporting authorities allow this to happen unchecked if no one was paying attention prioritising men over women.

That article only says that FIFA has not questioned Banda’s sex. Hardly surprising, as FIFA has failed to follow the lead of other sports in protecting the women’s game.

Amanda Kamanga, the president of Zambia’s FA (Faz), told BBC Sport Africa: “All the players had to undergo gender verification, a Caf requirement, and unfortunately she did not meet the criteria set by Caf.”

https://onefootball.com/en/news/africa-cup-of-nations-barbra-banda-banned-due-to-gender-eligibility-issues-35400347

If Banda’s T levels were high enough for it to be recommended that Banda takes medication to reduce it, then that suggests it is nowhere near female levels.

And we all know that any claims that DSD athletes must be female because they have a birth certificate, we know that’s nonsense as Semenya has a birth certificate stating female yet has a DSD that is exclusive to males.

The only way you can have testosterone at anything approaching male levels is if you are a female doping with T, or if you are a man.

What they are glossing over in that article is that a doctor refused to sign off on BB's sex and that Banda and some other players were withdrawn from sex testing. You might ask why the federation would do that.

Genital inspections are intrusive and unnecessary. And they're not always accurate, either. Barr bodies tests require a cheek swab and are accurate and reliable. The supposed flaws in regulations using Barr bodies tests is that the test picks up males with DSDs even if they have a female phenotype. Some people seem to think that if an athlete could pass as female socially they should be in the female category, but that is not how it works. (Or shouldn't be.) We're not just picking on males with DSDs to be mean, it's about protecting the female category in sport so that only women and girls compete in it and male athletic performance advantage is excluded. Males with DSDs which affect the outward appearance of their genitals, or who have an outwardly female phenotype are still male and therefore should not be in female competition.

So if you want to defend women, add your voice to those calling for males with DSDs to be excluded on a blanket basis - every single one of them is a man.

Banda is male, only males can have the DSD Banda has

banda had been through male puberty with all the physical benefits that brings

@Snowypeaks

Your answer was incorrect. Congenital disease or PCOS do not cause females to exhibit male levels of endogenous testosterone. 5nmol/l is high for a woman but it is not "male levels". BB is male.

Perhaps read this - all the way through. Banda is female - the issue is her hormone level. Isn't this board about defending women?

apnews.com/article/zambia-banda-womens-world-cup-79520a0f06bf1c91a18fbeacfdd2fbec

Mboma didn’t qualify.

neweralive.na/we-tried-every-trick-to-no-avail-botha-mboma-shifts-focus-to-rebuilding-for-future/

Sabrina posted a helpful graph upthread.

ETA - so much cross posting!

Ah cross posted with @Snowypeaks saying exactly what I was wondering.

There are things that can raise female people's testosterone yes. But do they raise it to male levels?

Genuine question, I really do not know. I thought there was still a significant gap between the highest female levels and average male levels but happy to be corrected.

Your answer was incorrect. Congenital disease or PCOS do not cause females to exhibit male levels of endogenous testosterone. 5nmol/l is high for a woman but it is not "male levels". BB is male.

Paris is VERY proud of their 50/50 male/female athletes, a first in the history of... Blah blah. If there's even ONE transwomen being counted as a woman, that throws that record out the window. Will need to correct that every time they claim it in the future

@NotBadConsidering

Yes, because as we all know, having PCOS or a tumour really leaves you healthy enough to play top level football in the US over the last 12 months and score goals in the Olympics football tournament 🙄

You asked the question. I answered it. I didn't discuss whether said person would be a fit Olympic athlete.

Oh yes, of course.

Also, those things wouldn't result in a female person failing a sex verification test.

Edited for clarity.

The implications are definitely the same for male DSD athletes who are now required to lower testosterone levels.
They and trans women have both gone through male puberty with all the sporting advantages that brings.