Oh. I thought we were having a conversation. I said I thought Lisa Nandy was fair enough in saying it should be dealt with by sporting bodies, you disagreed and said she should be applying pressure, I said I think bodies should deal with own cheats. I didn't put words in your mouth, you did that to me.

It is extremely hard to have a polite conversation with someone strawmanning ones position.

I'll try again though. My position on this is not about trans. My position is about where its appropriate for the government to actively intervene and where it isn't. I would be worried about the precedent of active intervention in this case.

It's not possible to know from what Nandy has said what she's doing behind the scenes and I'd prefer not to speculate.

At the moment this cannot happen in the UK. The US is nuts in lots of ways, I'd prefer not to apply their nuttiness to the UK because its really irrelevant.

I will ration its use only for the most egregious cases of cheeky fuckery/cheating, like this one. Otherwise I give way to the awesome Beetle.

@Snowypeaks
"The fact that this particular example is of US cycling is not the point - English football and many other sports allow men in women's competitions, and even GB Cycling allows men under certain conditions. "

The only exception in British Cycling rules is for males who have never gone through male puberty. I would be surprised if the exception has ever been used tbh and I'm not sure why it is there, maybe something to do with DSDs?

There are several big sports that are still wringing their hands about a ban: football, hockey, gymnastics. Tennis is being wishy-washy too. In the UK, women's football and hockey are badly affected by this at the amateur level and I can't understand why the governing bodies don't just harden the fuck up.

We're not seeing the full picture here though. We can't see the women who had the self respect to not be in a team that cheats and we can't see the teams who don't make the podium because of cheating men and their cheating female enablers.

Yet their teammates are all natal women and seem happy as larry to be on the podium with their 'women' partners. This is an amateur race and it seems that women are happily enabling this behaviour. I think frankly that the US is a lost cause.

Perhaps Lisa Nandy could explain why it's more 'inclusive' for transwomen to compete against women, than it is for them to compete against men? The bone-headed waste of space. 😡The whole point of sport is fair competition.

None that I know of in the sports I follow (cycling, triathlon, athletics and swimming) as males are banned from female competition by the respective world governing bodies. USA Cycling clearly doesn't enforce the rules for domestic competition, but British Cycling does, from the lowest level of amateur grassroots competition upwards.

When I said I preferred not to know, I meant it.😁 The world should contain wonders. I will probably start a church based on worship of the Bigly.

There is nothing else to be said, but swear from the rooftops.
Its insane making.
Email with link to Lisa Nandy.

I would love more female athletes to protest by not competing but I'm not gender critical in public because I'm scared of losing my job so I understand.

I wonder whether litigation in the US is the answer. Several women have suffered detriment by rules forcing them to compete with men with a gender identity of woman. They could sue the athletes involved and the governing bodies.

(Although the women suing their sorority lost, Becky Pepper jackson won and I think the Conecticut runners including Selina Soule are currently losing)

So if they can't walk away, how do we stop this crap, natal women lose whatever they do at the minute!

Not just their careers. They personally are vilified and destroyed. Do read what Lynne Pinches said about the reaction to the stand she made in pool. Their future employment prospects are damaged. The team or club they belong to may be excluded from competition. It's a huge thing to ask of them, especially as young women. And it's not fair - the sports governing bodies should be the adults and say no to the men.

Just make up a strawman and pretend that's what I think, why don't you.

You brought in the straw man by implying that I was calling for LN to write the rules of cycling or any other sport. I responded to your post. This is what you said earlier:

CassieMaddox · Today 08:37
I don't think the government should be involved in making competition rules for sports. That would be authoritarian and wrong in my opinion. Let sporting bodies deal with their own cheats.

And to your more recent post:
I don't think government should be getting involved in sporting bodies rules about cheating. As I said. Whether that's males competing as women, doping, or whatever it may be.
LN isn't being asked to draft the rules and it's not just a question of cheating. The men in that photo are technically not cheating because their sports body allows them to enter women's competitions. It's a question of sex discrimination and the destruction of women's sports.

This couldn't happen in UK cycling competitions because GB cycling have made clear rules.
The fact that this particular example is of US cycling is not the point - English football and many other sports allow men in women's competitions, and even GB Cycling allows men under certain conditions.

In my opinion the right way to deal with this is to put pressure on sporting bodies you might be a member of, not whine about a woman who's been in post for less than 3 weeks on the basis of something that's happened in another country with different rules.
We do put pressure on sporting bodies. Fair Play for Women are the leading lobby group in this area. Also the Women's Rights Network. But most sporting bodies are very resistant to the idea of allowing women fair sport if some men want in.
Where the rules of British sporting bodies are based on principles which discriminate unfairly against women, the UK Government has a duty to steer the sporting bodies away from discrimination and towards fairness. Would you leave it to individual sports bodies to decide whether or not to discriminate against people on the basis of race? I assume not. Not intervening to ensure that sports bodies fulfil their legal duty is the same as condoning the discrimination.
Lisa Nandy is outlining what will be her/Labour's approach. The approach is wrong, so the length of time she has been in post is neither here nor there. You don't need months or years of experience to know that men aren't women. She has also presumably heard of the EA2010, if not CEDAW.
And as I said above, men in women's competitions is not a US-specific issue, or even a cycling-specific one.

Oh, and CHEATERS

Is it only me who misread the name of the race as Viagra Cycling Championship?

What Career? What?!

You have no career when the menz are winning the trophies anyway.

So what if you still are given the silver that should have bern the Gold or the Bronze that should have been the silver or the qualifier that should have been the Bronze?

You get these now.

But the more they get away with it and are validated by their biological female opponents, the more they will take over, and then soon no biological woman will even get the Silver, Bronze etc etc. The sport will be dead for natal females.

WALK OUT. REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE. REFUSE TO VALIDATE

DO IT NOW.

While there are still majority natal women in the sport. The sporting bodies won't care once there are majority males identifying as female. What will be the incentive to do anything then?

(Although the above scenario would level the field a bit wouldn't it? Cynically, maybe that's actually what needs to happen in the end)

Google is your friend snowy

I wouldn't call keeping the female category female only "positive discrimination". That just gives ammo to butthurt MRAs

Quite. Safety is as important as fairness, neither of which is compatible with opening women's sports to men.

Just make up a strawman and pretend that's what I think, why don't you.

I don't think government should be getting involved in sporting bodies rules about cheating. As I said. Whether that's males competing as women, doping, or whatever it may be.

This couldn't happen in UK cycling competitions because GB cycling have made clear rules. In my opinion the right way to deal with this is to put pressure on sporting bodies you might be a member of, not whine about a woman who's been in post for less than 3 weeks on the basis of something that's happened in another country with different rules.

Of course governments should be involved in sports and positive discrimination for female athletes based on their sexed bodies. Because this is an employment opportunity for many female athletes.

There also is some need to ensure that sporting federations provide the best safety protocols available for that sport to ensure a level of safety.

@Snowypeaks you might prefer not to know, however I do... but I also know I would get banned for using it too often 😂😂

So. I shall continue to cheat the system by stealing (Zeugma's). I feel no shame in doing so, perhaps because I was raised with three older brothers 🤔

So they don't turn up to the event or turn up and forfeit.
Rather than coming second earning money, ranking points, qualification for a bigger more prestigious event they get dropped by their sponsors and their coach. They become the target for online abuse and receive death threats.
Why should women have to have the hit to their career and live in fear because some men demand something they have no right to?

Saying no at a small regional event can have massive repercussions - you don't qualify for the national event, so you don't qualify for the Olympics/world championships /other major event so you miss out on the once every 4 years opportunity to perform on the world stage, become the world champion.

I prefer not to know . I merely marvel, awestruck, at the bigly when I am privileged enough to see it.