Boys and girls regularly race together at U12 and lower - there often aren't enough entries to stage separate races. However they get their own individual results separated by sex. Sex differences in cycling performance only become apparent at puberty - in fact girls are often at an advantage for a couple of years due to their earlier growth spurt. (This is based purely on my own observations having been a youth coach for many years, no official data to back it up I'm afraid). I've never heard of a boy trying to enter in the girl's category but I suppose it could happen.

cross post! As usual you have the actual evidence!

@LaeralSilverhand CassieMaddox

Male gymnasts are not at a disadvantage compared to female gymnasts in artistic gymnastics, except perhaps for the artistic dance element of the floor exercises. With the exception of the balance beam, women's gymnastic disciplines were adapted from men's to make them easier. So the vault would be a piece of cake, the parallel bars likewise and the floor, with the caveat about the dance element. And I've seen Tiktok videos of male college gymnasts completing their female teammates' beam exercises with ease - on the practice beams which are about 15cm off the floor.

Men might struggle in rhythmic gymnastics because the degree of flexibility required for some moves is extreme.

If there was no GRA I very much doubt we’d see this issue of men in female sports

I’m happy to give it a try. Why not?

There was a video a few years ago, it has now been made private I noticed, where two olympic female gymnasts watched male gymnasts do some of their routines and incorporate moves that no female gymnast can achieve.

Even though they are different sports, a male body carries significant advantages still over a female body for many of those artistic female gymnastic events.

The only exception in British Cycling rules is for males who have never gone through male puberty. I would be surprised if the exception has ever been used tbh and I'm not sure why it is there, maybe something to do with DSDs?

If the exception is there, it can be used, even if it isn't now. And you have to remember that boys are also stronger and faster than girls. So even if a boy grows up without the benefit of the puberty turbo-charge in his teens, he will still benefit from male athletic performance advantage. There are two mini puberties before the main event.

Male athletes with DSDs shouldn't be in women's competitions either, regardless of what the DSD is.

CassieMaddox

I said I thought Lisa Nandy was fair enough in saying it should be dealt with by sporting bodies, you disagreed and said she should be applying pressure, I said I think bodies should deal with own cheats. I didn't put words in your mouth, you did that to me.

I quoted you directly about it being authoritarian of government to write competition rules. No-one had suggested that LN rewrite the rules herself so that is you introducing a straw man.
You talked about dealing with cheats, said that it should be up to each body how they dealt with them. I pointed out that the government has a duty to ensure fairness for women in sport and therefore it would not be authoritarian to apply pressure to on sport governing bodies to fulfil their legal duties and the conditions of their funding. How is this putting words into your mouth? Or indeed strawmanning your position?

I'll try again though. My position on this is not about trans. My position is about where its appropriate for the government to actively intervene and where it isn't. I would be worried about the precedent of active intervention in this case.
My position is also not about trans. It's also about where it is appropriate for government to actively intervene. I think it should intervene in a clear case of sex discrimination and human rights violations. Just in case you're not clear - the "inclusive" policies which enable cheating are discriminatory against women because only men benefit from these policies. Allowing men into women's sport violates women's rights to fair and safe sport, and equal access to sport. Allowing men to use communal female changing rooms is a denial of their absolute human rights to privacy and dignity. Women with identities are entitled to participate in women's sport provided they are not taking testosterone.

It's not possible to know from what Nandy has said what she's doing behind the scenes and I'd prefer not to speculate.
I'm not addressing what she may or may not be doing behind the scenes. Luckily, it is possible to know what her approach is because she outlined it in the Telegraph article. So no need to speculate. I think her approach is wrong because it enables discrimination and denial of women's human rights by sports bodies.

At the moment this cannot happen in the UK. The US is nuts in lots of ways, I'd prefer not to apply their nuttiness to the UK because its really irrelevant.
A result like this may not be possible in cycling, but LN is talking about all sporting bodies, not just British cycling. And as I said in my previous post, most sports in England, Wales, Scotland and NI allow men in women's competitions. So it can happen in the UK.

Because it's all about misogyny. It's about driving women out. The bodies - governmental or otherwise - doing this don't want to help women and girls, whatever they claim.

That deliberate, fucking dick bulge....

Even if you repealed (in the UK) the GRA and removed gender reassignment as a protected characteristic from the EA, this will have no effect on event organisers deciding who they allow to compete and in what categories.

Wow, witness the fitness! Well done, boys, what an achievement.

The legislation does nothing for women and girls. Only negative impact

Why keep it? What’s beneficial about any pretence?

There's nothing to repeal. The organisers of sports competitions are free to make up their own rules and unfortunately in the US (where this story comes from) they are firmly captured by TRAs.

We all know full well that bigly will eat anything put in front of them! Even the lemon drizzle cake if it was the only thing sweet in the house at 3 in the morning.

(Allegedly!)

I really don't know how these people can live with themselves, denying the rightful winners their places. Their 'rights' trample over the women's, and people are hoodwinked. I thought sport had woken up (sic) to this kind of injustice.

Why on earth are women expected to put up with this

Repeal it all it’s messing up society for women and girls

Gymnastics should, just for the sake of completeness, but I think it is a very 'low risk' sport as men's and women's gymnastics are essentially completely different sports.

Women's football and hockey is a complete shitshow though, with transwomen competing throughout domestic competition. The sad thing is how many women are happy to have a transwoman on their team simply for the advantage it gains them in competition. I'm sure some are true believers, but I bet plenty are not remotely TWAW but just go with it for the advantage it gains them.

I can see a schism in the Bigly church. The Bigly High Church will not discriminate on grounds of chocolate or cake flavour. Yeah verily I say bring unto them e'en your marmite and miscellaneous pronunciations of scone.

Unsurprisingly when it comes to GI. Nandy and her ilk can't be logically consistent.

Perhaps you should let the Labour government in Wales know your feelings on this subject.

Welsh Labour ministers wrote to the Welsh Rugby Union to attempt to influence the union in its policy on transwomen in women's rugby.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-64825491.amp

I don't mind accepting the lemon drizzle on your behalf Oh Bigly One 😈

@Snowypeaks

Ignore my child.

It is me you should build your church for!

(The thing about the lemon drizzle cake still stands though)

I wish gymnastics would too; however I think people who've been through male puberty would be at a significant disadvantage in female artistic gymnastics so that might make it complicated for them to decide. Males would be at an advantage in trampolining though.

Seconded. Bigly.

💜 I can get behind this post.

I'll expect top of the range everything. Best bricks, best altar... Best food offerings to the one you worship. (May I suggest Tunnocks, but not the dark chocolate ones and most definitely not lemon drizzle cake as that will see you cursed with tiny tiny letters for your posts, - in white.)

She's been misrepresented by the Torygraph. They know the levels of mistrust in Nandy due to her previous comments so are exploiting it.