Elon Musk makes bombshell claim about his transgender child

Exactly lordloveadog, quite why that appears too difficult for some to understand is beyond me.

Next step is to introduce opposite sex hormones and that is usually accompanied by the claim that they will allow the person to go through the puberty they desire which is dangerous rubbish. No-one can go through a puberty for a different sex, it is not a choice, your body needs to go through the correct puberty for your sex.

A major flaw the PB protocol links to it intended purpose to provide 'time to think'.

Whilst it stops the body maturing, it does the same to the brain - thus hindering cognitive development and thinking and reasoning capacity.

With this in mind, it is no wonder that those who go on PBs are likely to go on to cross sex hormones whilst those who don't aren't.

If you use a medicine to stop an adolescent reaching sexual maturity, they will not reach sexual maturity and so will be infertile.

if you use the same medicine on a child and then stop using it so that the child matures, they will mature and become a fertile adult.

if you use the same medicine on a fertile adult, you will not stop them growing into a fertile adult because they already are one.

Puberty blockers are given to ‘trans children’ for the first purpose, to stop them maturing and becoming adults with the bodily features associated with sexual maturity, including fertility.

How hard can this be to grasp? Anyone arguing that blocking puberty in ‘trans children’ doesn’t cause infertility is either willfully stupid or disingenuous. The WHOLE POINT is to prevent sexual maturation.

'woke mind virus' fucking hell no wonder she cut him off, what an absolute buffoon

Yes I’m well aware of that.

That’s very different to “if you take GNHR analogues, you are permanently infertile. End of!!” comments that I and some other posters are objecting to. Especially when referring to a specific named individual.

I meant jazz Jennings popularised it not that he started it all. In the 1980s it would of only been a small number of trans people almost all of which were adults. In trans healthcare it's widely agreed there would be no point in someone who's already gone through puberty being given puberty blockers.

The term comes from Gad Saad's book - the Parasitic Mind

That's the only thing that'll stop it in it's tracks.

Money. It always comes back to money.

Just to complete this side conversation, yes the presenter who said mind virus is male and they were discussing male athletic performance at the time.

The guest is a woman who "felt like she was dying" going through perimenopause. So yes it was discussed that women are different but she was offering hope that women can be in good physical health post menopause using hormone replacement and keeping mobile with strength training, stretching, cardio. Diet wise she recommends avoiding refined sugar, making sure we get enough protein and fibre.

Whole interview with Dr Vonda Wright is here:

Sorry for derailing especially when I hadn't heard the full conversation, it was just one of those things where I found the phrase "mind virus" a bit bizarre, but through Steven's use of it I understood it to be a socially spread idea that we act on that causes harm. Rather than some weird conspiracy thing, that I might have assumed just hearing it as a quote in the reports of Musk interview.

Sorry if everyone else understood that, it was just new to me and then I heard it twice in short succession.

Lawyers must be rubbing their hands with glee.
I've already seen adverts for teens damaged by this insane ideology and insurance companies will be paying out billions.
The next big scandal.

@Saschka the Tavistock was closed down because practically every single child that used puberty blockers went on to use cross-sex hormones.

Within 'dysphoria' treatment, it seems blockers were a pathway that led inevitably to these drugs which as you say cause long term fertility problems.

This is why puberty blockers are incredibly dangerous to this cohort, and not so dangerous for IVF patients.

Jazx jennings didn't start it all.

As far as I'm aware the first children to be treated in the uk was in the late 1980s, and before that in europe. Its was then when they were give to children just before adult treatments, not as a 'time to think'.

He's probably more used than most of us in trusting professionals to do their job.

That's not exactly what I understand about him, he's used to investigating for himself and then deciding. Or giving his experts their heads and then dumping them hard if it doesn't work, which is fine when it comes to tech and money. People on the other hand.... not his strong point.

It is when they are used to prevent puberty - if you don’t go through puberty you don’t have any mature gametes to conceive with 🤷‍♀️

Because GnRH medicines do not cause infertility on their own.

I've taken them for endometriosis. Don't spread misinformation - there are nasty side effects agreed but it's not a certain death sentence for our fertility. * *

They do when they are used for total pubertal blockade rather than short term followed by a normal-timed puberty.

They can also cause permanent infertility in adults who use them as blockers for a range of conditions.

That’s exactly what I’ve been wondering about.
When I was at school in the 90s there were couple of gay kids, so it wasn’t a taboo exactly.
I don’t remember there ever being any talk about “transkids” or someone feeling thy were born in the wrong body. I also don’t remember ever hearing about a teen suicide because someone wasn’t allowed to “live as their preferred gender”.

15 and 16 no it was younger than that, jazz Jennings from I am jazz (some would say this TV series is what popularised "trans kids") started taking them at 11. The whole point was to block puberty most of us have already started puberty before 15. In the 2010s before the NHS cracked down on puberty blockers it was standard for blockers at about 12 and cross sex hormones at 16.
Very sad for the many victims of this scandel

I'm not a fan, though I think he's an interesting person and his willingness to speak honestly and challenge wokery can be helpful in waking people up - but as PPs have said he's inconsistent.

I feel for him and I understand what he's saying - and I think he's right, his child has been lost to essentially a cultural movement/trend, could be described as a mind virus, some call it a cult. The idea of his son being "dead" comes from transactivism and "deadnaming" - it's not just from EM. But it's not good to draw attention to his child in that way. It certainly won't help to improve their relationship, whether the transitioning situation ends up being permanent or not. It may be true, but in the context of wanting the best for your DC, it would have been better not to say it.

Also we don't know how much of his poor relationship with his child is just to do with that - there could be other factors.

He's probably more used than most of us in trusting professionals to do their job.

No doubt hes taken in son to one on the most expensive, most well regarded professionals and realised later that a lot of what he's been told isnt true.

He should have spent time on FWR, but we all make mistakes.

There have been various studies yes - here is a random one showing no decline in fertility for women. Feel free to give it a google yourself.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8686727/

Look I am 100% not cheerleading for them for trans healthcare - I think they should be banned for that purpose. But they are sadly sometimes needed for medical reasons and I have been in that situation so I am (perhaps understandably) touchy about this misinformation.

It’s a Daily Mail story. They’ll only ever report one way.

There are massive issues with PBs even for medical use and the side effects have to be very carefully weighed against the gain. We don't need to invent issues.

Do you know for certain that puberty blockers given in childhood don't lead to fertility problems later in life? The medical profession isn't going out of its show they don't.

The people saying there is absolutely no risk are just as guilty of invention as anyone else.

Elon Musk is very good at good at tech and he's very good at making money, but what I admire most about him is that everything is everybody's fault but his own. A foolish decision that he didn't investigate properly first is the result of a "mind virus".

He is not what you'd call a nuanced thinker.

I did not describe them as safe. I don't see how making things up about them is helpful to anyone though, it'll just make people assume everything else being said is also hyperbole. There are massive issues with PBs even for medical use and the side effects have to be very carefully weighed against the gain. We don't need to invent issues.